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LGBT Mob Forces Singer to Back Out of Inauguration
Posted On 15 Jan 2017
In her 30+ year career, Broadway performer Jennifer Holliday has sung for four presidential inauguration ceremonies without encountering any resistance or controversy. But Holliday, who starred in the original Broadway production of Dreamgirls in 1981, was forced to back out of the Donald Trump inauguration due to legions of angry, bitter LGBT fans.
A few days after Holliday was announced to sing at the Make America Great Again concern on Thursday, the singer pulled out of the concert with an open letter to her supporters. Backlash from her gay and lesbian fans was so intense, Holliday said, that she felt it necessary to remove herself from the event.
Published at TheWrap, Holliday’s letter began with a salutation to her “beloved LGBT community”:
Please allow me this opportunity to speak to you directly and to explain why I originally made my decision to perform at the inauguration which was what I had thought would be my simply keeping in my tradition of being a “bi-partisan songbird” having sung for Presidents Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush.
[…]
I was honestly just thinking that I wanted my voice to be a healing and unifying force for hope through music to help our deeply polarized country… Regretfully, I did not take into consideration that my performing for the concert would actually instead be taken as a political act against my own personal beliefs and be mistaken for support of Donald Trump and Mike Pence.
In light of the information pointed out to me via the Daily Beast article on yesterday, my only choice must now be to stand with the LGBT Community and to state unequivocally that I WILL NOT PERFORM FOR THE WELCOME CONCERT OR FOR ANY OF THE INAUGURATION FESTIVITIES!
You can’t really hate on Holliday for making this choice; she’s not going to risk her album sales going in the toilet because her fans are too blinded by their own hate to separate politics from patriotism. So she had to get out there and pander. No shame in hustling. Trump supporters aren’t going to pay her rent.
But her fans – the LGBT mafia, essentially – should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. What is their game? What has Trump ever said against gays and lesbians? This is pure leftist garbage. No singer or performer must condone the EVIL DONALD TRUMP. It’s pathetic.
She chose her side. The dark side of moral decay and pop culture rot. Shame on her.
Now the rest of her former fans can choose their side: AMERICA. Boycott her.
Indeed, that is the reflexive liberal response to anyone who confronts their ethic – violent rejection.
No, that is a personal choice.
No one chooses to be gay – it is something involuntary that is determined at birth. They may chose a lifestyle, to be discrete or flamboyant, but they discover it in their teens.
Please cite the science that says people are born queer.
There is no conclusive evidence of that. It is just conjecture. It is a convoluted reasoning to make gays feel better about themselves.
I don’t understand why they must play the blame game to justify their choice.
I feel no compunction to justify my choice to be straight. Methinks they should accept themselves and their choice. They don’t need to demand OUR approval; It is their lives.
Obviously you have never had a conversation with a gay person. Nor have you thought about what it has been like in the past (and the present in many parts of the world) for gay people or queers. Would you CHOOSE to adopt a lifestyle that exposes you to discrimination, abuse, and violence?
You are not straight from choice; you are straight because you are lucky enough not to be gay.
Many studies now show that identical twins, separated at birth, have a high correlation of sexual identity that begins in their teens. There are also studies that indicate that the preference is set in in-utero, and exposure to chemicals or stress is considered an influencer. This should be enough for you to start your own research and you are free to disagree.
People with (normal?)”birth” problems seek some medical resolution/fix. When aids hit hard and heavy, those affected were crying for the government, the medical community, anybody to FIND A CURE/SOLUTION! If “born homosexual,” there MUST be some genome, hormone, x-y factor crossed up or missing – as very much of this and the human race ceases to exist. Have you heard ANY siren call from these people for finding WHY they are not normal, much less a desire for a medical solution? The ONLY call was for an aids solution, in order to continue their proclivities!
I’m not gay and can’t put myself in their place. I am sure that many gays believe that they are “Normal”, while many suffer feeling the opposite. But consider if there were no adaptive significance to a subspecies that is less likely to reproduce, they would have become extinct long ago. But they haven’t. It is perhaps like asking why are some people autistic – until you realize that without savants, the pyramids could not have been designed, or that Greeks knew that the earth was round, long before it was proven to be so. There is a reason why some people are gay, and the majority not. I don’t know the reason, but I suspect that it has to do with natural selection of the human race as a whole.
I have not come across any scientific “cause” for homosexuality; it just seems to be a fact of life in quite a few animal species as well as humans, and it has been around at least since the time of the Greeks.
Gender issues and things like autism, however, seem to be a fairly recent phenomenon, and are linked to exposure to hormones and exposure to certain chemicals during pregnancy, respectively.
Savants have been around for a long time – it is only recently that we understood the connection to autism. Gays have been around at least as long as the bible – likely much longer.
there are some studies that show a possible link with a “trigger” gene or epigene that may contribute to a person being gay, BUT as with many other situations genetics loads the gun but environment pulls the trigger,
ps I do believe homosexuality violates several injunctions in the Bible and as long as this is understood. people are free to do whatever they want as long as they do not try to shove their lifestyle down my throat
there is research that shows sexual orientation being set inutero.
You are quite right about being gay is not a choice (which came as a bit of a surprise considering some of your other remarks, but good for you!).
It is possible that Garys_opinion really meant that this was a personal choice for Jennifer Holliday not to perform, without any influence form the LgBT community. Let’s give them both the benefit of the doubt.
I believe strongly in personal responsibility and that runs right up against liberal beliefs. But, where there is no choice, how can anyone be held responsible? However, when folks choose to be a parasite on society, or a predator, or encourage such behavior – that is choice. If you examine what I write in that perspective – you will see that I am consistent.
You are right that becoming a parasite on society is a choice, just as becoming a criminal is a choice, and not a good one from society’s point of view. I’m sure you will agree that being born blind is not a choice, but also not something that one can be held responsible for. I argue that the same is true for being born gay.
I have yet to understand how personal responsibility and liberal beliefs are mutually exclusive. If we take the opposite of liberal to be conservative, we are talking about those who have strong religious beliefs (I have yet to meet a conservative atheist!) and religions tend to remove all personal responsibility: you follow your particular scripture, and you pray to your god to tell you what to do.
You obviously are viewing conservatism through a distorted liberal lens. Fiscal conservatives – don’t have to be religious and indeed, the majority are not. Fiscal conservatives want to pay their own way and abhor those who suck off the system. Unfortunately, Liberals see that as a right to be granted to have-nots.
If liberals were sincere, they would be giving away all their own money first. They would be taking the homeless illegal aliens into their own homes first, and indeed, murdering their own children first before advocating abortion. Instead they ask the Government
to implement it all, as national policy. There is a very good outline of the differences between liberal and conservative today on Townhall. see
http://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2017/01/17/a-guide-to-basic-differences-between-left-and-right-n2271475?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&newsletterad=
What they choose though is a personal thing and it should not be forced onto anyone else or used as a threat to force others to follow them!
No they choose to be perverts and the lies of the liberal media covers their sick choice.
We all have the right to personal choice but we must ten accept it. We should not be “pushed” or “forced” into a decision based upon the interests or desires of others UNLESS those interests and concerns are shared equally with us.
Holliday apparently felt she does not have the star power to retain her followers.
Her followers apparently do not see her as much of a star if they feel they can force her to do as they want!
Who seems to have displayed the greatest personal conviction and strength of mind: Trump has faced all kinds of negative attacks for the past two years and he is still standing; this woman bailed out without any real pressure applied!
If she is truly good, she would have walked right through her performance and still be respected for who she is and what she is; but, maybe what she is why she bailed out! There seems to be a real lack of integrity and professionalism in her decision!
It’s Communionism a @ it’s best. Taught by the Marxist.
I will Boycott ALL of HOLLYQUEER, NASHVILLE, ALL Singers, ALL Performers, I don’t need them at all.
If one must have movies and music discs for entertainment, these can be obtained for free at the libraries or bought for twenty-five cents at garage sales.
yes they can be but I don’t want to see or hear these people any longer, I will NOT give them the courtesy of my time, even if they are unaware of it.
The only method that would convince the entertainment profession that they are irrelevant is to be sure their wallets become thinner!
WELL NOW….WITH THE CONTENT OF TRASH COMING FROM THE MOVIE INDUSTRY, WHY ARE WE SPENDING OUR HARD EARNED DOLLARS TO MAKE THEM THE RICH CELEBS THEY ARE?
I asked myself the same question and decided to stop spending money on them.
How can we botcott them when we don’t even know they exist?
Sooooo well said! Kudos!
Guess I just don’t understand. !!!!! How sad, to let ANY group “make you” not do something great. We have become a country of “wimps” who only do things that our “friends?” approve…. Straighten up and be your OWN person. Be true to your “own self”.
She is afraid that LGBT folks will ruin her career.
She just ruined her own career, anyway.
We will be sure to remember her actions against our President.
Guess I don’t understand your comment, we all have the RIGHT TO MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS. I would never deny that…….
If you do not understand maryann33, you must not be on this plant.
jim strong how wrong you are we understand perfectly you lost we won. you are a poor loser and pushing your anger on us. that is down right dirty and nasty. I live on the same plant as you, but more civilized .
Tell that to the president that trump supporters have been telling lies about for 8 years… Some morons still think he wasn’t born in Hawaii and that he is a Muslim! Got to be a real idiot to believe those lies but they still do….
Read his book. His words are true. Obama said if things go south for Muslims he will give them aid and support.
hE SHOULD MOVE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY SOUTH !
You saying he would do the same as he would for those of his own Christian faith? That IS the Christian way….
We’ve been screwed by the democrats and republicans these last TEN YEARS.
It seems it took a “Trump” to awaken us! Of course, we knew there was corruption but didn’t dream of the deepness of the rot.
Hgeyer, perhaps you’re a liar, but i am not! Every word I have said about OWEbama is true. He is the worst president in our country’s history! He tyrannized us by forcing Christian bakers, florists, etc., to pay fines, thus go out of business for standing up for their beliefs. He went after the Little Sisters of the Sick Poor demanding they provide birth control to their employees many of whom are nuns and have no need for that. Why should a religious order have to be tyrannized, threatened, brow beaten, taken to court to defend their religious beliefs ? Why can’t people pay for their own birth control or just say NO! He paid ransom to Iran, made the worst deal in history with Iran and provided enough heavy water to Iran for them to make 10 nuclear bombs! He has turned his back on our strongest ally in the Middle East – Israel. All of a sudden he is doing something about hacking – why didn’t he do something when China hacked us in 2014 garnering thousands of pages of data about millions of us from the OWEbamacare website? He still has done nothing to China, but because he wanted to create a story line about PEOTUS Trump and Russia, he tossed out Russians with but 2 days warning. He bowed down to every country, apologizing for the USA and what did we get- NOTHING bit total lack of respect from other countries. Where was the red carpet wen he went to China? How come he had to come off the back of the plane? Why wasn’t the Chinese president there to meet the POTUS? Because he showed he is totally useless and China saw it.
So, don’t tell me I lied about OWEbama – every word I have said is the truth. God bless PRESIDENT Trump and Vice President Pence – Make America SAFE and Great Again.
I like freedom. Bake the cake already. Baking a cake is not sin. Nor is sharing in sin.
Yes Obama is the Administration the most corrupt in the U.S.A nothing but EVIL!
But, to Hgeyer, this condemning, stinking list of O’s “accomplishments” smells like lovely crap!
I often just block Libs when they get just toooo smelly!
Obama is using up what is left of his $2.2 Billion dollar “marketing Budget” he uses to pay the media to market his agenda with. My guess is he his paying them in advance so they will continue carrying his, and the democratic party leaders, fraudulent agenda for some time yet.
He has certainly done nothing to show that you have not formed a correct assessment. I think O is a bottomless pit (cesspool, really) from which more foulness will continue to erupt.
It’s an absolute fact that Obama apologized to the Muslim world for The United States being who we are; he insinuated we are a bad people with a bad agenda. You can go into the archives and check on it. It’s there.
We don’t need to lie. Look at Hillary she is all a liar, they just can seam to see the evil in her. She hates her supporters. she does not want to be with them because to her they are noting but low liners most of them wear. I am poor but i voted for Trump because i know he can help this country.
You hate liars but trump was proven to have outlied Hillary during his campaign 2-1! trump is the ultimate liar and you helped put that asshat in the White House! So much for your hatred of liars!
You must have listened to toooo many main-stream media’s “sound bites.”
I just listened to trump… don’t you pay attention? It’s lie after lie! Go to Politifact. Their “pants on fire” page is mostly trump! He’s pathological!
YES I’M ONE OF THE DEPLORABLE’S THAT VOTED HIM IN AND PROUD OF IT. HE DIDN’T LIE BUT ALL THAT CAME OUT OF HIL—LIAR–Y’S MOUTH WAS A LIE. YOU ARE BRAIN DEAD.
YOU HGEYER ARE THE BLIND STUPID ONE. TRUMP IS AN HONEST MAN UNLIKE THE ONE WE HAD FOR 8 YEARS. HE IS A MUSLIM.
At least I’m smart enough to know he is a Christian! Only an f’ing moron would think otherwise! FYI! Muslims don’t attend Christian churches for 30 plus years and pray with a Bible! Nobody in the world has EVER claimed that they have seen him pray the Koran ! Please start using a fact checker…ANY FACT CHECKER! You have no clue what reality is…
He hasn’t lifted a hand to help the over 700000 Christians who have been martyred, IE: Killed BECAUSE they were Christian, in the last 8 years, and has flooded America with about 1/4 million MUSLIM “Refugees” and has ADMITTED he was Muslim.
What part of that are you not understanding? He’s winning the war on ISIS or ISIL as he likes to call it, while they spread to 32 countries. In case you’re not familiar, ISIS = Islamic State of Iraq & Syria. ISIL = Islamic State of the Levant. If you Google Levant you will see a map that contains Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, & parts of Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Yes. Your Dear Leader is MUSLIM.
As far as being born in Hawaii…. Prolly was but it’s interesting seeing this:
https://americanfreepress.net/barack-obamas-birthplace-a-tourist-attraction-in-kenya/
Oh BULL$hit! Obama has NEVER “admitted” he is a Muslim because he isn’t! That is a lie! He has been bombing the heck out of Isis for years! Nobody in the world can truthfully say that he is a Muslim! Please go to ANY site that does factchecking and they have all concluded that Obama is a Christian and that there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that shows any different! It’s a lie, lie , lie and you can’t show otherwise! Please come back to reality or post your fake news site that tells you he is so I can PROVE THEM WRONG! Stop being a tool!
Since I voted for Trump, I do not think I lost anything.
No you have not lost anything you will gain I know that is True because I voted for Donald J. Trump as fore President.
She made her decision and we will remember to boycott her career.
She is afraid and is being blackmailed. This I can understand I’m sorry for her though.
Do you have reason to believe she is afraid?
Right now any black person who comes forward and professors any common ground with Trump is immediately vilified. I am a black Trump supporter and I can tell you this from first-hand knowledge. In my neighborhood if you put out a Trump sign expect your property to be vandalized. Need I say more?
In the media in the past couple of months thrre was an account of two black man speaking about Trump. The veteran praised Trump. A third party went out to his car got a gun and shot the military veteran in the leg. You really are living in an alternate universe.
But both Black and White folk need and WANT jobs! Why not vote for the person who is the most qualified in the job’s arena?
I think the far-left must be creating an alternate universe with which I, being past seventy, cannot identify.
I am with you my dear Mary.
Then you understand how difficult some of the “changes” of today make me feel that my America has morphed into some strange place!
They call it socialism. Secretly, many know it as
American communism.
Oh, yes. But we are working on our own “agenda”. America still has a chance. We are going to have to fight like crazy; but there’s one thing we cannot do: & that is “Never Back Down!”
We should never stand down and let these people rule us. I’m old but i still have the guts to stand my ground.
I’m old but also have the guts and guns to stand my ground!
We really DO have a chance, and that makes me happy!
I am not sure it even deserves a ‘name.’ To me, the crazies are simply insane!
I sincerely believe what you say is true because I have been in more that one situation whereas I couldn’t act on something because it wasn’t political correct for the situation. And I’m so said ” white “. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong situation. That’s just the way life is and it’s not about like or dislike.
I think there IS a place for political correctness! Sometimes speaking out at the wrong time doesn’t further our goals.
Just a moment here, I thought the Liberal Progressive Society was all about “Tolerance” what happened here? Do the Liberal Progressive’s mean for everyone else but not them?
I really don’t care about someone that is afraid to stand up on their own, and fight for what they believe in or for what’s right, this country is getting stupidly afraid to say anything that would make someone else uncomfortable!
It means they are tolerant of the Liberal Progressives.
Anyone else is Irredeemably Deplorable!
No matter what they “think,” they remind me now of a little mouse trying to take on a male lion!
We should just be laughing at their attacks!
I am sooooo looking forward to tomorrow!!!!
Oh, come on. Of course she is afraid. Read again. At a minimum, she fears for her livelihood.
Yes and she may even fear for her life.
Well, it is true that I only scanned the article. Could have missed something.
My feeling were that she was just very foolish to not want to stand up for this nation.
Never will be a star. Hadn’t got it in her
Actually, I had never heard of her before this episode.
Thankyou. Thought I was the only one who had never heard of this person. She could have made a name for herself. As of now I can’t recall her name.
I doubt many folk knew about her. A few days ago, there were people who couldn’t decide if her name was Jennifer Holiday or Jennifer Hudson!
She has sang for this event before, hasn’t she? And yet not made her name well known. Still, this election has been so unique, people might have admired her bravery if she had sang in spite of the uproar. Folk might be buying her albums as has happened to the young lady that is singing the Anthem! She may have missed her one chance to have the spotlight on her in a positive way. I think she will think about this decision later.
From what I read, it sounded like she was more concerned about her music sales than being blackmailed. She should have performed and probably would have got many more people to purchase her music.
Totally in agreement.
Same thing. Her livelihood is her life. She could get her career destroyed if she sings at the inauguration. This is the same as blackmail. If you do not do what I tell you to do I will destroy your career your livelihood a great part of your life. What other proof you need? Physical violence or ruining your career-both are detrimental.
Cheap
Yes; but we can be better than that. Our enemies do not respect our weakness; they respect out “strength”.
I understand. At my age, my children grown and gone I can afford to say – ” SO WHAT” ! Many others value their place in the “world”. It is not an easy decision. I would have SUNG MY HEART OUT….but that is just me.
Me too! I would have “sung my heart out” and feel honored to be asked.
I have since read more, and she was afraid! Now, she is apologizing. I am sad for her, but I think she did what she felt she had to.
Probably
Hmmm. Maybe.
The young Classical singer who is singing the National Anthem, can’t remember her name offhand. Shortly after she agreed, the sales of the 4 albums she had out skyrocketed! I think she’d tell Hollywood to “Put it where the 2 moons don’t shine”.
What career?
Certainly all, including the entertainment profession, have the right to make their own decisions!
And MANY AMERICANS have made their “decision” to not add our money to their wallets by buying, watching or listening if they are, in our opinion, un-American!
Exactly!!!!
The real movie stars are gone .The ones now think because they make a movies have naked their somebody .Their somebody alright …. !
Trash
Yes, gone. Forty years ago there were some decent ones. But, now, just gone.
Yes your so right ! Look at all the garbage they make now . They think if they make movies with foul language , and naked people their stars .What a joke !
And shoot things up. And grossly show murder and other really nasty stuff and turn around and tell us we need to give up our guns.
Cheyenne, “The real movie stars are gone. The ones now think, if they make a movie naked, they are somebody. They are somebody, alright.” Signed the Deplorable Punctuation Police. ?
Celine who? Garth who? Never heard of ’em.
Dead. Meryl what sheen who.?Rosie McDonneldogface.
I really don’t see how entertainers think we want to hear about their Political views. Meryl Streep stepped over a line too. This is a Republic and whoever gets the most votes WINS! End of story. We just had 8 years of LIBERAL time for a change.
The most electoral votes, that is.
Meryl who? Rosie McDufus who?
AMEN TO THAT:
Have you considered the big picture here?
Trump won out and the Democrats, starting with Obama and Hillary, are sniveling that he won illegally.
How do they explain there other losses? They lost a lot of seats; it makes me believe there was more to the entire campaign outcomes than the Democrats want to admit too.
The one who one illegally is Obama and he must be arrested and pay for his treason.
Looks like no one has thought of that.
Hollywood is still fighting McCarthy. We must take up the fight where he left off…No lefties allowed in Hollywood or they lose their career end of story.
Our ancestors had it right, once actors and entertainers were viewed in the same class as prostitutes, occasionally entertaining to engage but never to be introduced to polite society!
Right ON! Who gives a rats hair if they are there or not? How many of these fakers are included in the bunch who said they would leave the U.S. if Trump was elected” How many of them are still here?
We can get by without any of them! Why do they feel they have the power to force us into anything? They are no better than you, or me, or anyone else!
Each has but one vote apiece, period. I neither need nor appreciate lecturing from actors.
Good for you; neither you nor I will be forced to comply with the direction others want to push us. I do make decisions half-heartedly and allowing the media to influence anyone is absurd.
Believing anything we hear from the news or talk show media anymore is absurd. The media is more interred in digging up something that will improve their viewers numbers than in doing what is right; honest, unbiased and supported information. Obama built a mind set into the media financed by his (Obama’s) $2.2 billion dollar marketing budget. This is tax payers money Obama uses to sell his agenda to the public; what he wants us to believe is channeled through the media and pushed off onto us. IF though, half of it was true we would not be in the mess we are in today!
What’s funny is so many of the “Celebrities” who say they are not coming to the Inauguration were NEVER INVITED!
DainB41. They allowed them to be important. Just like you they have absolutely no impact in my life. I can live without anything they do.
I really want to put there money where their big mouths have been. They should all leave, together if they like. Problem for them is, no one will have them.
Absolutely! All of them were never worthy to even hear about!
The world has moved right on, and we even elected a businessman who will bring back jobs!
Good point Mary.
Thanks!
But when your decision is under severe pressure it’s not your deep down decision. It comes from the blackmailer not her deep feelings.
Don’t force your decision on everybody else !
Along with that goes the responsibility to accept the ramifications of those decisions as well!
No she is afraid. It happened before in Hollywood when the mccarthyits went after communist sympathizers. Many people’s careers were ruined. She is simply being blackmailed.
And so will be all her life
Yep, and that seems to be the course our nation has taken in the past eight years.
to dalnb41:
1. the perverts are the gop republican party, they have perverted our government, and Christianity.
2. If you study the Gospel of “Jesus christ” you will see He kept the establishment of the first century church separate from the religious leaders of His time, their perversions, and fom any connection to governing entities thsat Make God through His Son the establish er, initiator and installer of “separation of church and state”.
3. It has been the3 conservative element of the church that has co-opted the gop, and the gop reciprocated by co-opting the conservitive church thsat has perverted the Christian faith.
4. Christianity is not a religion, it is a faith, just as the Jewish bel;ief is not a religion, it too is a faith.
Your so-called description of Christianity ( judeo-christianity) is certainly not biblically proscribed; nor is it taught in seminary. You seem to be listening to Liberal intepretations that suit their liberal agenda. We christians know about our faith in Jesus Christ. Yes we call our faith a religion.
Black mail is a CRIME.
It may be a crime but it happens every day.
LGBT is a crime with a life sentance in the eyes of God….
Make that eternal sentence, unless they repent.
AMEN!
Hell for sure to all who succumb to the subversion of sex.
There is always a chance for a change in the heart repenting before the last breath is taken…
Isn’t God the judge??
The Bible is the word of God and he has already pronounced judgment until my sexuality as well as adultery fornication and a host of other sins. Our job as Christians is to warn of that punishment.
to black dahilia:
1. much of what you said has truth, but not so much asd you apply it. remember God said “Judge no lest you be judges. in other words by the saME STANDARDS YOU JUDGE YOU SHALL ALSO BE JUDGED.
We all judge but are not able to pass judgment on others. Judgment itself belongs only to God. I cannot consign anyone to hell for their sins but God can. In fact he is already told us that he will and ordered us to warn others. Very plain. I think that you are using the words judgement and judging interchangeably and they are vastly different.
The Bible also says “thou shalt not permit a sorceress to live”.
Want modern day Salems?
I am practicing Christianity I’m not practicing Judaism. There are 1050 commands in the New Testament for Christians and this is not one of them. All of the moral commands of the law of Moses that is the 613 mitzvot are found within the commands of the New Testament. All of the other ceremonial and civil laws that were applied to the Israelites are for Israel only. You are confusing the two. Is this Christianity 101.
to black dahila:
1. yes you are absolutly corect in this “We all judge but are not able to pass judgment on others. Judgment itself belongs only to God. I cannot consign anyone to hell for their sins but God can”
2. We are never to pass judgment or use Him or his word to do so. Yes we re to warn others but not to be condescending in mind set or attitude. to push others away from god is also wrong. the ultimate choice to follow Jesus , god is the responsibility of the individual, its called f”free will” something god respects as the manor in which he created us.
3.I use “judging” as an act one does or becomes guilty of to another by using god His word to do so when one has difference in views or understanding of Scripture,and its application.
4. in instances when one judges another it Manny times become a judgment by the one doing the judging.It becomes an act by the human, not by god. God will exicute proper judgment in His time.
You are putting your own spin on God’s word. It doesn’t say anything about not being condescending in your manner or attitude. That is a judgment call that you personally are making about the person who is stating that it is wrong. The Bible tells us that we will judge angels in our time how much more the matters of this world. We are to judge the same way that we will be judged. You are quite right God has the final judgement and the only one that truly counts.
GENESIS is in KING JAMES!
It is in the VULGATE!
It is NOT in the BOOK OF MORMON!
DEUTERONOMY is in KING JAMES!
It is in the VULGATE!
Is is NOT in the BOOK OF MORMON!
The book of REVELATION has dire warnings against changing HIS WORD!
It is in KING JAMES!
It is in the VULGATE!
It is NOT in the BOOK OF MORMON!
Trump has already endorsed Mitt Romney!
Which Bible is the WORD OF GOD?
It is absolutely in the King James version and many other versions. The law of Moses for the Hebrews is in all of the Old Testament Bibles, in fact much of the history of the Hebrew people is in the Old Testament.
Christians do not practice Judaism. In fact the Jews of today cannot practice ancient Judaism because there is no Temple in Jerusalem and there are no longer 12 tribes so they cannot perform all of the civil and ceremonial laws as required by the OLD TESTAMENT LAW OF MOSES.
And afraid that you foolishly and erroneously thino that Christians are practicing ancient Judaism. In fact most Christians know very little about ancient Judaism or present day Judaism. I’m afraid you’re badly misinformed. The followers of Jesus Christ are called Christians.
Both the OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW TESTAMENT are in the bible. There are also other apocryphal books not in the canon. There is no other ACCEPTED book or scripture for Judaism or Christianity.
Yes, He is the final Judge and He also tells, His followers that we must judge others righteously as His WORD so dictates….
that is so understanding of you to see it that way . your saying even god feels good about it . as you state even god is ok for any LGBT having LIFE and being the god ive heard of im sure he would add to LIFE PEACE AND HAPPYNESS
You seriously need to read the story Hof the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah found in Genesis… Yes I did say a life sentence.. There is life after death, it is either life with Christ in Heaven or it is life with satan in the pits of Hell.
We all have fallen short of God’s desires for our lives and were it not for His Grace and the precious Blood of Christ we would all be condemn to Hell.
and you have proof ? we are in what one might call hell now
No, but you are certainly willing to believe the lies of the non-Christian if you so wish… But believing in lies doesn’t change the lies to being the truth, never has and never will. The absolute truth of God’s WORD will never change to suit man’s desires and to believe otherwise is nothing less than insanity. God’s WORD is all the proof that we need.
God created this earth to be a paradise but God also knew before Adam’s first breath was drawn in that he would sin and destroy that which God had planned for man. Satan was casted out of Heaven because of his pride and arrogance of thinking he himself could dethrone God, thus God created Hell for satan and the angels that joined satan at his battle to overthrow God… Those that reject God’s desires as satan has will join satan and his demons in Hell.
and who is to prove these are lies ? have you ever thought that you might be the very one believing in the lies . if be it there was a god and you im sure (as ive heard for all believers ) that the god see’s every thing right ? so your telling me this so called loving caring god that makes sure no innocent are hurt . heck even the guilty he wants no hurt or pain on them for he forgives them . set around and watched Hitler murder and killed 13 million people and 6 million of them were Jews . that be it to me and common sense to be the true insanity one if that be a good god ill pass on that one for common sense tells me that’s the true evil one that can see that happening and do nothing but watch . that the EVIL one
Can you please give me some idea as to how much of the Bible you have read and how long you have spent studying it…
A truth that can be manipulated to please one’s thinking is not truth but only in the imagination of the liberal’s thinking.
One who believes himself to be wise is often to be found to be just the opposite, wisdom is not the product of many years of studying, or many degrees, or a doctorate; wisdom is the understanding and having experience, knowledge, and good judgment that can’t be manipulated into half truths or lies in the attempt to pervert righteousness.
Thus the truth to God’s WORD which says; Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding ( Prov. 3:5) . A wise man’s heart is at his right hand; but a fool’s heart at his left (Ecc. 10:2), yet the fool and most liberals will still say there is no God.
True, the Bible was written by approx. 40 different authors in three distinct languages over a period of approx. 2500 years or more, yet it specks one primary message of forgiveness and salvation with no contradictions whatsoever.
I wonder, do you believe that the Historian Flavius Josephus and Sir Isaac Newton lived…. Well there is just as much or even more,.. will actually much more proof of Jesus existence that is if you are interested.
Newton wrote: “Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system. I see the earth at the right distance from the su to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance. – Sir Isaac Newton.
Historian Flavius Josephus (Born 37 AD, Died 100 AD) who wasn’t a Christian; was born in Jerusalem and his writings have been revered throughout the centuries by thousands of authors over the last 2000 years.
Maybe you should do an investigation on your own, such as former atheist and award-winning Investigative Legal Editor of The Chicago Tribune, Lee Strobel…. Lee went on a two year investigation to disprove the existence of God and the false Christian faith and he wrote what his investigation revealed in “The Case for Faith,” and “The Case for Christ.”
God gave man freewill to either choose the truth or the lies of others. Man is the reason for man’s evil doings upon other men, not God.
To intervene in certain events is His decision alone and in no way do we have a right to judge God’s decisions.
Regretfully I must admit I have questioned His being a loving God when my two month old niece died, but I was not so wise of His WORD and His ways for many years as I am now. Oh, I should mention God can intervene in any situation He so chooses too.. such as stopping a man from killing a co-worker just a fraction of a second before he was about to push him to his death.
There is absolutely nothing impossible for an all knowing and all seeing God.
Whether you believe in God or not you can surely see the moral decline of this nation all around us and even throughout the world with all of this terrorism and killings. The Bible told of this happening over 2500 years ago and that a generation would not pass after the re-gathering of Israel, and that re-gathering happened in May 1948…
Please don’t waste the next 2 or 3 months just thinking about all of this, just read one of the books I mentioned earlier and know a government that embraces the abominations of evolution, homosexuality, abortion and the rejection of God’s Holy Scriptures will stand for only so long.
its a book written by man no facts what so ever all hearsay it at best for some is a bed time story . like Santa Clause, Easter bunny, tooth fairy as real as any god and more so for one gets money under their pillow or gifts under the tree . you can read as much of any part of that book you want but its all a myth nothing is real its just a book to fool people . and there are many different faiths again all myths no facts show me one true fact just one . and not something that from the book for one to believe a fact I true wise man would understand gods a myth and a fool is one to believe anything else . yes I was brought up to going to church and Sunday school nine yards and it was all a brain washed . I do believe there is good and bad in each of us . so in fact I know if one is good of bad its just what thy choose to be for what ever reason . but don’t try to drop off an O in good to get a god just like adding a D to evil in all there is you and every one thy are their own good or evil pretty simple . so if you want you can be good and call yourself god but that is as close anyone is ever going to get to a god its you that chooses to be good or bad (evil ) there’s more facts to Alien’s now that’s true facts you can believe in . more so then any god . to each their own . and you can talk till your as you might put it god blue in the face but even then it will only be good blue in the face . im not a kid im 50 + so im not a child anymore to be brain washed . theres nothing wrong with that kind of brain washing good outcome and reason but don’t be fooled its still like DONNY DUMP a big lie
You sir may have several diplomas or degrees to claim knowledge in several areas but in no way does that mean you have wisdom in all areas… Worldly wisdom is just that- worldly wisdom which the Bible says it is no more than foolishness to God.
The wisest of the wise could not even scratch the surface of the wisdom of God who spoke the very existence of creation into being.
The world has always chased after the riches of this world, self-pleasing in sex, fame, money and power over others; they are not nor will they ever be concerned about the truth if it is a threat of them not gaining these self-pleasing perversions.
If anyone says there is no God than their wisdom would have to encompass everything there is to be known from the past to everything here in the presence…. In truth, they know what they know but to have knowledge of that which they know nothing about is nothing but mere speculations and to deny this statement is the proof of man’s ignorance in understand the truth.. And the proof that those that deny the existence of God are blinded by the prince or god of this world, satan.
You still haven’t acknowledge whether you have read through the Bible or not…, Maybe you can explain the amount of research you have done to come to your conclusion of there being no God…
Why should God reveal Himself to someone that denies His existence? There was a former atheist who was the Legal Editor for the Chicago Tribune several years ago by the name Lee Strobel who spent two years investigating the possibilities of the existence of God and the Christian faith… You should read of some real facts for yourself and not rely on hearsay from your parents, or your friends, The Bible say God has given every one the knowledge and ability to know the Him but the vast majority has denied and rejected that knowledge because they love their sins more than anything else.
We live in a fallen world and in a nation where the vast majority has embraced the abominations of evolution, homosexuality, abortion and the rejection of God’s Holy Scriptures- For, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16 KJV).
The truth of facts pertaining to the Earth, our Universe, Medicine, Science, Astronomy, Archaeology and Prophecies found within the pages of the Bible have been argued over for two thousand years or so, yet not one has been proven to be found to be in error.
You as well as everyone else have the freewill to deny these facts but the funny thing is, no matter how much you deny the truth of God’s Holy Scriptures you can never ever be truthful to yourself or to anyone else for that matter.. http://www.inplainsite.org/html/scientific_facts_in_the_bible.html
and you YOU stupid brain washed bastard do this take your myth faith and shove it up your ass that’s where thew SHIT belongs go preach your BULL SHIT TO SOME ONE WHO CARE for I was brain washed for too long now im clear and know the truth and the facts so go bother some one else you wacko or ill report you moron and ill tell you I only get nastier from here ok ASSHOLE leave me alone dickhead
Oh, wow! It’s true, that truth hurts… I used no profanity but the liberals result to name calling and profanity nearly every time, why is that? I know it isn’t because of one education or lack of education as many suggests, because I have seen college professors result to name calling and profanity… I am guessing it is one’s lack of self-control or parenting… Maybe it is just a little of all the above combined.
If you would rely on reasoning I would suggest that you drop kick your laptop out your Mother’s window or never ever visit these kind of websites again.
You needn’t rely but I certainly enjoy hearing how you liberals choose the so-called moral high ground… This old man needs all the laughs he can get.
I would say God Bless but I don’t wish to offend you…
no theres no truth to what you say its a myth in your brain washed mind and no profanity’s at all these are FACTS I under stand to label you with all true facts as I see it too you . drop kick my comp . awwwwwwww is that something your god tells you to be and feel ?as for coming or going to anyplace I will go until you are able to stop me . HEY ASK YOUR GOD TO HELP YOU TELL ME WHAT HE OR SHE OR IT SAYS . MY MORAL HIGH GROUNDS AREW HEAD ANS SHOULDES ABOVE YOUYR MORON LOW GROUNDS as for you saying god bless me well I am GOT AND IVE BLESSED MYSELF ALREADY . so as for me believing in any god well yes I believe in one GOD and that is myself for we all are our own gods . but your not mine and im not yours for if I was yours you would be nailed to a cross . as for a god YES I AM THE ONE AND ONLY GOD AND I COVER THE ONLY IMPORTANT THING OF ALL MYSELF
no theres no truth to what you say its a myth in your brain washed mind and no profanity’s at all these are FACTS I under stand to label you with all true facts as I see it too you . drop kick my comp . awwwwwwww is that something your god tells you to be and feel ?as for coming or going to anyplace I will go until you are able to stop me . HEY ASK YOUR GOD TO HELP YOU TELL ME WHAT HE OR SHE OR IT SAYS . MY MORAL HIGH GROUNDS AREW HEAD ANS SHOULDES ABOVE YOUYR MORON LOW GROUNDS as for you saying god bless me well I am GOT AND IVE BLESSED MYSELF ALREADY . so as for me believing in any god well yes I believe in one GOD and that is myself for we all are our own gods . but your not mine and im not yours for if I was yours you would be nailed to a cross . as for a god YES I AM THE ONE AND ONLY GOD AND I COVER THE ONLY IMPORTANT THING OF ALL MYSELF !
So, you still haven’t said how much of the Bible you have read nor supplied any information as to your studies of theology… I wonder, did you check out the website that I suggested on “Scientific Facts In The Bible?” I know true facts are a complete turn off for most liberals… I was just hoping that you might be a little different than most of them….
[I believe in one GOD and that is myself] Thanks, I need a good laugh after a trip to the grocery store…. Well, my God created everything out of nothing… What can you create out of nothing. Have you parted any rivers lately?
The Bible tells us that we live in a spiritual world, what you see is only temporary and what you don’t see is permanent. I am guessing this will be a waste of my time but I tell my abortion stories on my blog, it’s about forgiveness and a promise the Holy Spirit spoke through my lips to a young Mother who had an abortion some 16 years or so earlier…. It is proof of there being a all knowing God. My prayer is that your curiosity will compel you to Google: “watchman48 The Greater Message.”
Accountability is another turn off for the liberals… And to be honest I don’t like it either but I do know that we all must pay the consequences for our sins in this life or for sure in the next life.
I told you I don’t believe in myths nor do I read a book I don’t believe in . I get more truth out of a comic book
Here is some more truth for you…. The liberals will read books the debunks the Bible or God but why are they afraid to read a book that supports the Bible or God to compare the differences… Because they love their sins and the thought of their being accountable for their own sins, and there being a Jesus convicts a sinful heart; therefore they become extremely angry and blasphemy all who would present the truth to their ears. Does that sound like anyone you know?
PS as far as you knocking my parents I have to say its your parent and parenting that wack’s it thy are the one that did a big time shitty job thy sent you off to be brainwashed and filled with all lies . and you are the fool that believe the lies . hey call dick head DONNY DUMP he will love you for you are so easy fool and will believe any lies he tells you for that’s all he has . heck ill bet you even voted for him . he he thinks he is thew god almighty him self but he is as I see him a blow hard fool and is only the god of him self you should be thankful for that . but you im not sure ? tell me what dose god tell you . awwwwwww never mind im not going to tell you nothing talk to your self id bet even you wont understand yourself oohh well you still have your brainwashed myth
Well, my parents certainly had nothing to do with my faith in God they were the wishy washy Christians that never once read the Bible.
I was 17 when a two month old niece died, so I grew to hate God for many years blaming Him for her death. In Nov. ’69 my wife announced to my in-laws that their first grandchild was on the way.(They had a son 9yrs older than my wife but haven’t been able to have any kids) Mom shakes her finger at my wife and says, “I think this will be a little girl!” I was seated to her left and to my utter shock I said, “No, it will be a boy weighting 7lb 8oz and 21″ long.” June 20 my son is born weighing 7lb 8oz and 21″ long. I just turned 21 in Nov. and knew nothing about things such as that.. There is no way in the world that I could have known that. And again in Nov. ’73 Mom says, “I think this will be a little brother for Brian… Like before I was seated to her left and said, “No, it will be a little girl weighing less than 6 lbs. Michelle was born in May weighing 5lbs 9oz, This was the Holy Spirit speaking through my lips and He has done this a total of 8 times and I have several witnesses that can verify what I am saying.
But all of this is nothing compared to God giving me a vision just a faction of a second as I was about to murder a co-worker in June 1978. The vision was of my 4yr old daughter and my 8yr old son standing in a garden maybe 10-12 feet in front of me reaching out to me and saying, “No Daddy, no! No Daddy, no!” And still that is nothing compared to His whispering in my left ear to save my life and that of several others as I was driving out of Chicago on Mar. 29, ’94… My witness to this was Dennis Campbell from Texas. And Dennis and for others were witnesses to God leading me to the prophecies He had given to Pastor Dumitru Duduman revealing a nuclear attack on USA…
Then in Aug. ’94 after reading the Engineer’s Report of the WTC #2 Tower bombing, I began speaking a warning to thousands all across US for seven years warning that the terrorist would be back to “HIT” the WTC #2 Tower again and when they do they will “TAKE” it to the ground. Yes, there is an all knowing and loving God that wishes that all would seek to know Him and His desires for their lives…
God will not force Himself on anyone… He doesn’t want a slave, He just asks for obedience to His WORD.
well good for them thy never gave in to the myth .
I am guessing by them you are meaning my parents… A closed mind is not only closed to outside thoughts, it is often closed to itself as well. It is closed to new thoughts and anything that threatens the status quo.
The one with a closed mind doesn’t seek knowledge because he already thinks he knows everything.
That’s amazing I was born in 73 & my mother in law did me same way & my first son weighted same amount & was same size.
do you not understand you are believing in a book that man wrote ? saying that god was talking to one in the form of a burning bush . be it as you think and god is all this and can do anything then why dosent he make peace on earth ? as for rejecting well as you state god see’s and knows every thing one would say it was god that rejected the cry of all the innocent that were murdered and did nothing for their suffering scream’s if there be a god it is in and is every one for all are god in them self its one that choses to be good or evil not a god YOU AND EVERY ONE ELSE don’t believe is something that man made up believe in one’s self
But it can’t B proven as a criminal matter without some specific threat. She’s made a thoughtful decision, taking her fans’ feelings into consideration. LGBT’s R a significant element in that base.
“Fans” tend to be a fickle lot. She may live to regret this.
Sodomy was a good law in America until the gay revolution. Take our righteouse country back.
I blame the “Civil Right’s” act of the early 1960’s for many of our problems today. The enemy within our government repealed the Sodomy law, repealed the intermarriage law, then created the no fault divorce law….the list goes on. This nation will continue to decline, until the nation turns back to God’s Word/laws.
As Christians we are told not to marry outside of our faith. This is the only intermarriage that the Bible speaks of. But intermarriage are you talking about?
God set the boundaries of the world…for a reason. Using common sense, why intermarry with someone that do not have the same racial culture and beliefs. It causes turmoil. Turmoil is caused by the serpent seed/satan. There are the serpent seed on the earth.
Multiculturalism is but a tool of the ungodly communist.
I knew two Mexican people that each had a different faith…were always butting heads.
God through his word the Bible never said anything about not marrying outside of your culture/race. Many countries are a blend of cultures and races since the beginning of time. God spoke of marrying outside of your faith. You remind me of Miriam Moses’s wife. You just don’t get it. We are all one in Jesus.
I believe God created boundaries of the world for the peoples sake. Perhaps to prevent the one world order, or one world government, spoken of in the Bible….the BEAST.
God absolutely did not intend for mankind to have a one world government governed by mankind. God bless you and keep you…
Exactly! I agree, I believe that is why God created boundaries, borders.
God bless you!
In my eyes they are totally insignificant. And I am not alone.
But if your career was being an entertainer, they’d B significant 2 U. So your remarks are just a manifestation of your virulent anti-queer feelings.
Blacklisting and blackballing are not crimes.
NO YOU ARE RIGHT BUT WHAT THEY ARE IS HATE.
I belief that she would have furthered her career not to bow to this insignificant lot. But since she chose the other path, I think she will feel it. After all, we have a better memory.
They are not crimes and we the people may black call and blacklist whom ever we please!
Blackmailing is a crime but blackballing and black listing are not. To me they amount to the same though. Intent is to inflict harm if people don’t do what you want them to do.
YEP!!
Putin is a CRIMINAL!!
He is USING Trump!
And you know this HOW?
This dingbat hasn’t the IQ of the average garden vegetable. It’s best to simply ignore it’s ramblings. You can have a more rewarding and substantive discussion with a developmentally disabled third grader!
Try reading Der Spiegal!
It is a German newspaper.
It is far from liberal.
It has already reported that Putin is making NATO edgy.
He has already used, the murder of Turkish Ambassador Andre Karlov, to wrest concessions from Turkey!
Did Trump use, the murder of Ambassador Stevens, to get elected?
Rush Limbaugh CLAIMS to have stand down cables!
Where are they?
Does Putin know about this?
Obama used the cover-up in Benghazi to get reelected. I read newspapers and media from all over the world. NATO meaning the European countries or going to actually have to step up and protect themselves now that the United States is deciding to protect America First. All the money that they were using to bring in refugees who hate them and are destroying their own people and culture and Nation will have to be used in part at least to protect themselves. Time to grow up and accept responsibility for themselves.
Put in had already used Obama. Russia raised the rates on the Ukrainian oil and gas purchases and Obama stepped in and paid for it when the ukrainians could not. He wrote Putin a check. He then proceeded to give Iran a huge plane load full of cash to circumvent our banking laws. Iran then made purchases of arms from arms dealers all over the world including Russia and they are now using these arms against us. Congratulations! Oh did you hear about Hillary’s son-in-law and the Russian uranium deal? He stands to make a lot of money from Putin and Russia. Congratulations Hillary.
People are blackballed and blacklisted all of the time.
She lacks the fortitude to stand up for her rights and she is allowing others to run her life for her! It makes me wonder how she ever got to where she is if she can not stand up for her rights, do what moves her without having other tell her, or be the person she has appeared to be for so long.
Chances are if she (or anyone else ) asked as many from the LGBD group what they think of this we would find the pressure came from a few acting as if they represent the many!
I wonder if she will now have to hold her hand up and get permission from the LGBD group every time she wants or needs to do something; is that not the price of allowing oneself to be pressured into something?
I’m not judging her. She chose her career over singing at the inauguration.
She chose to surrender to the blackmail of radical perverts, over America!
I THINK SHE IS A CHICKEN SHIT COWARD… I BURNED HER ALBUMS AND WILL BUY NO MORE…..
Good job, everyone should trash her albums. Let her learn the hard way.
you should shun trump and the whole republicanism party, thuir the”face of Evil” in this country and in the world! This lady, and I say LADY! MADE THE CORRECT AND APPROPRIATE CHOICE
…said another knee jerk left wing parrot…!
“My way or the highway” that’s the “tolerance” we see from you whackos…tolerant of everything except a difference of opinion…
When you debate with idiots, it lowers the IQ of everyone! This babbling idiot is no more than a foul wind blowing from the garbage dump!
to ted nichales:
Boy you just keep describing yourselves, “when you debate with idiots, it lowers the IQ of everyone! This babbling
idiot is no more than a foul wind blowing from the garbage dump”!how sad you think so little of yourselves. I have not resorted to name calling, but you have! that speaks volumes about who is the idiot with a low IQ, those with low Iq who can’t post something constructive tells us who is the idiot and lacking in IQ!
DOWN with political correctness!
Here debate this….
What does the Bible Say?
The places where the English word “homosexual” occurs in the Bible are found in two verses:
1 Cor. 6:9, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.” (NASB, ESV, NIV, )
1 Tim. 1:10, “realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.” (NASB, ESV)
In Each case, the Greek word used for ‘homosexual’ is ἀρσενοκοίτης, arsenokoites. Here is what it means according to Greek dictionaries:
ἀρσενοκοίτης arsenokoítēs; gen. arsenokoítou, masc. noun, from ársēn (730), a male, and koítē (2845), a bed. A man who lies in bed with another male, a homosexual (1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Tim. 1:10 [cf. Lev. 18:22; Rom. 1:27]). Zodhiates, S. (2000). The complete word study dictionary : New Testament (electronic ed.). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.
88.280 ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου m: a male partner in homosexual intercourse–‘homosexual.’ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι . . . οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται . . . βασιλείαν θεοῦ κληρονομήσουσιν ‘don’t you know that . . . no adulterers or homosexuals . . . will receive the kingdom of God’ 1 Cor 6:9–10. It is possible that ἀρσενοκοίτης in certain contexts refers to the active male partner in homosexual intercourse in contrast with μαλακόςb, the passive male partner (88.281). Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.). New York: United Bible Societies.
ἀρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoitēs), ου (ou), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ Str 733–LN 88.280 male homosexual, one who takes the active male role in homosexual intercourse (1Co 6:9), specifically interpreted as male homosexual paedophilia (nab footnote); possibly a more generic term in first Timothy; sodomites (rsv, nrsv, nkjv), perverts (niv, neb, reb), practicing homosexuals (nab), homosexual (njb), (1Ti 1:10+), note: translations possibly use certain specific terms to infer or allow certain theologies. Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ an adult male who practices sexual intercourse with another adult male or a boy homosexual, sodomite, pederast Friberg, T., Friberg, B., & Miller, N. F. (2000). Vol. 4: Analytical lexicon of the Greek New Testament. Baker’s Greek New Testament library. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.
It is best to use an English word that accurately portrays the original. Since a new and more accurate word had entered the English vocabulary, it became the word of choice.
Let’s take a look at the Merriam-Webster dictionary, 11th ed. Springfield, Mass, 2003:
ho•mo•sex•u•al ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl adj 1892 1: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex 2: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex–ho•mo•sex•u•al•ly adv
Therefore, it is easy to see why the word “homosexual” was not used until later English translations. Once a more accurate English word existed, it was matched to the corresponding Greek word. Homosexuality is still a sin according to the Bible.
to david nichols:
sadly in your description;” My way or the highway” that’s the “tolerance” we see from you whackos…tolerant of everything except a difference of opinion”. you just said and described your self and those like you to a tee!thank you for you expressed detail description of your gop republican party collaborators, for your expressed honesty here. trump and his gop do not tolerate people of different opinions or views, never have! all you guys do id tyry to dominate and rule like
dictators!
Dan, get out a dictionary i.e. Try not “tyry”. Who is ignorant? By the way Trump crossed the aisles and got many votes from the blacks and Mexicans but Hillary could not even make a dent in the intelligent white vote. Trump is far more inclusive as the Democrats have kept the poor in slavery with Welfare and food stamps which haws doubles under Obummer.
to dennischip;
1. rump got votes by scamming people, hes a scammer, con man to the hilt!
2.Trump is not inclusive, he is exclusive he lost the women vote, the Hispanic vote, the lbgt voteand the black vote.
3. no democrtes do not keep the poor in slavery with wealfare food stamps etc. thst is just anothert lie your stating from the gop talking points. Just because democrats have made it easier for these people by making these programs available to the needy does mean democrats have enslaved them, the gop enslaves them by not hel;ping with job creatuion and by obstructing wage increases. to help push money to the wealthy rich corporate money whore mongers.
All this noise from the Lib/Dems, it’s just fear. Fear that after 4 years the bulk of their slaves in their plantations will see the light, bolt away and come join the New Deal. The Dem party will be buried for a generation, to say the least.
Mr. Trump is president. Your opinion is moot and see ya….
as DONNY DUMPS opinion is pretty much the same moot mute and very deranged he is truly a retard stuck in his own senile head . and by right and should be a law any president should have a full psychological evaluation ! his EGO itself would lock him up
And you’re entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately your opinion means nothing.
mine means every thing its yours that means nothing
No doubt your opinion means everything to you. The facts mean everything to me.
so I beg to diffa my opinion means every thing its your that means nothing . hey look it help you out more now you can come out of the closet and there are people that will stand up with and for you
Everyone has opinions. Only the facts really matter
facts as I see and know them these are
Which makes no sense. Your opinion is that it’s okay to kill babies in the womb. My opinion based on fact is that the baby is a human being and the baby’s DNA confirms this.
Your poorly thought out, and even more poorly executed reply reveals your cognative deficiencies for all to see…
Thanks for that…!
It was the equivalent of the 4th grade response “oh yeah..? So’s your mom.
to nichols:
go blow it out the other end, because your spewing do do out your mouth,You must think it task good ah!
Says the self professed “no name calling”.
It was not the Trump supporters or the GOP Republicans who tried to shut down the opposition or keep them from speaking. Many liberal universities across the nation take our tax dollars and then refused to hear anything other than their liberal point of view from its speakers and or teachers. Liberals are tolerant of themselves and their own kind not anyone who has a different opinion such asva conservative. Trump supporters do not go around smashing windows, bashing in store fronts, looting, attacking people on the streets or setting garbage cans on fire. That belongs to the liberal domain.
She is a dip shit as you are also. Scumbag damocrap hellary lover.
Are you one of the liberals that says conservatives are Hitler like. Better look in a mirror if you want to see someone that is a bully. You liberals are all alike. You condemn someone for no reason at all. You are just a bunch of immoral, baby killing morons.
To Dan:
I am a democrat who most are more moderate progressive in nature not the liberals you
rank conservative like to claim , but as JFK once stated it so correctly: “when
Republicans tried to make the term liberal anathema, Kennedy embraced
it. A liberal, he said in one
speech, “cares about the welfare of the people—their health, their housing,
their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties,” and
under that definition, he said, “I’m proud to say I’m a ‘liberal”. Now God said
“when you do to the least of these, you do unto me”. This definitely supports
the Liberal connection, and conviction. So if this action means I’m a liberal,
then SO BE IT, AND I’LL PROUDLY WARE THAT LABEL!
2.You need to equate yourse4rlf and those like you “conservatives”
to the Hitler mantra you refer to! Look no further than the mirror to see one,
your it, your reflection bud!
3. It has been you conservatives doing the condemning from
gays to woman’s right all using god Scripture and religion to do so; all of
which is completely unscriptural, and un- Christian. You deny Gays their constitutional
rights to dominate and to control human society. You twist, construe truth, God
and scripture to your liking to support your own self-righteousness.
We don’t kill babies, abortion is a women’s right to make
choose her own choice concerning her health. Fetuses are not babies,
The fetus is not a baby until it is born, then it’s a “new born baby”; you deny
science to justify your own judgmental condemnation attitudes.
“Immoral” you just made yourself out to be the “immoral” one
by our judgmentalism.
I point, n fact, I did not call names but you did by calling
me and others “Maroons”. You must have been l;ooking at yourself in the mirror!
Fetuses mean young ones and yes they are babies. Yes they are being murdered in the womb. God himself has already condemned homosexuality. He told us to go to the into the world and spread his word. Yes we will warn and not be intimidated by you or anyone else.
to black dahila:
no fetuses are not babies, they a e not capable of any rational thought process until they become born, and start to develop mental cognitive abilities.,
2. abortion is not murdering a baby it is the removal of a fetus.
3.No god did not condemn “homosexuality”You are wrong and mis informed in your Scriptural understanding.read on, it is a rather lengthy read::
The Roman government
Emperor Augustus (FOUNDER OF THE ROMAN Empire), instituted a ban on
heterosexual marriage for serving Roman army soldiers, before the birth of Christ. The Roman marriage ban lasted
until around AD 197-325. This ban may
have sparked same sex relationships in the first century AD Roman Army.
This is the time frame, and back drop God choose for His Son to be born into.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the center ethics of Christianity, not sexuality
ethics.
Jesus Christ “god” in the flesh
would have known of and witnessed homosexuality. Homosexuality was fairly common while He was alive. Yet, Jesus was completely silent on same-sex
relationships. He, the pure and sinless
one, never even connected homosexuality to sin (while He taught extensively on
issues of Sin). In fact, Jesus potentially
blessed an ancient gay relationship as an example of faith. In Matthew 8:5-13 & Luke 7:2-10,
the “Roman Centurion and his slave.” According;
to well-known biblical scholar, and authority on Greek culture, and their
Language. Sir Kenneth Dover (a Biblical scholar, known authority on Greek culture and language), writes; about
600-1000 years before the writing of, Matthew, the term “Paiddika”
was used. Paiddika (a diminutive of Pais) the greek term for slave;
is a literal reference to the junior partner in a homosexual relationship. The use of the Greek word “Pais” referencing
to “slave” would have been understood by people of that day in reference to a same-sex
relationship. The Roman use of Slaves
were very multiple in nature, from menial task, beast of burden, and for sexual
pleasure and gratification. The roman army, when coming off the battle field
many times would use them for sexual pleasure/gratification. Typically common
live stock were of more value to the Romans than a slave in roman times, yet to this
centurion this slave was of particular value to the centurion.
There are also
churches in major denominations that have reconciling/affirming congregations. Unfortunately, many denominational churches still reflect the Pauline doctrine over the Gospel of “Jesus christ”and not
the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This effectively means these congregations are “followers
of man” (mans theology not Gods) ,
the created, not the creator or rather than of God or Jesus Christ. Churches that are affirming and inclusive are
Christ followers. These churches have
chosen to reflect the scriptural authority of Jesus Christ. Recognizing each Christian’s faith walk is
different due to unique circumstances; Mine is different than yours and yours
is different than mine, each is Tailored made by god for each, because we all
have our own issues in life ; We have to be careful as a church as to how we intervene in that faith walk,
because were dealing with something very divine in nature . The church’s responsibility is to nurture and
assist by showing the love and compassion of God “Jesus Christ” in that faith
walk and not to pass judgment or condemn.
The church is to be a source that reflects unity, healing and God’s New Covenant. God’s church is not to be a source of divisiveness,
hate, pain and bigotry.
Religion has
too often been used by extremists groups that use God and the Bible to
propagate prejudices. From the dark ages;
a time when government and the church were essentially merged to become one. Hitler (via Nazi Gospels); extorted the church
to ascend to political power in Germany and to embark on his crusade. The Third Reich twisted
history and religion to bolster the logic to justify spilling innocent blood
and the extermination of the Jewish people and gays.
In the
United States, the KKK has extorted many conservative churches, using God and
the Bible to justify subjugation of African-Americans. Still active, this extremist group uses the
same indoctrination of conservative religious beliefs to justify their
extremist actions taken against people. This
vitriol prejudice attitude was used by a church group in Plainfield, Wisconsin against
me. I did not bring homosexual activity
into the church; however, I did, in a Christian attitude, defend gays against
unscriptural comments expressed by biased individuals. Consequently; I became one
of many people rejected by those types of similar conservative churches today.
Conservatives
claim that liberal bias has become the
single biggest distortion in modern Bible
translations. While errors exist when translating from one language
to another, specifically targeting liberalism is a conservative agenda. The “Conservative Bible Project” is attempting
to completely re-write God’s word,” based on man’s inherently flawed interpretations;
by removing “What they call Liberal
biases. Scripture cannot mean today
what it did not mean in Biblical times. When we alter God’s word, we run the risk of destroying the holy
message. Clarification does not target a
specific element, in this case Liberalism. God is neither a conservative nor a
liberal. He, a more moderate progressive
(by todays political standards), through his teachings, words, and actions, demonstrated
a perfect balance between liberalism and conservatism.
JFK said it best: “when
Republicans tried to make the term liberal anathema, Kennedy embraced
it. A liberal, he said in one
speech, “cares about the welfare of the people—their health, their housing,
their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties,” and
under that definition, he said, “I’m proud to say I’m a ‘liberal”.
God said “when you do to the least of these, you do unto
me”. This definitely supports the Liberal connection, and conviction. So if
this action means I’m a liberal, then SO BE IT, AND I’LL PROUDLY WARE THAT
LABEL!
If homosexuals
don’t fit into your little box of beliefs, let’s not squeeze them in by trying
to change how God created them.
John 1:1-3;
1 In the
beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same
was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and
without him was not anything made that was made.
Instead, build
a bigger box or expand one’s beliefs to more closely reflect the “Gospel of
Jesus Christ,” which is all-inclusive. Trust
God and leave judgment in God’s own capable hands.
Jesus never turned people away, not
even those ejected by others.
Rev.
Dan ordained March 27th 2005 in okc,ok book #76 pages#230.
Many adults are not capable of rational thought. As previously stated the word fetus merely means young one. And yes babies in the womb are people. It makes it easier to murder them if you dehumanize them first.
your grasping at excuses dear to justify your own lack in understanding rather than to admitted being wrong or erred in you tinking! NO ONE IS DEHUMANIZING ANYTHING, YOU TYING TO AD PERSONALIZATION TO THEM AS IN THERE PEOPLE, WHICH THRE NOT UNTILL THEY ARE BORN AND GROW INTO THE STGES OF BECOMING AB ADULT.
Dan, when did you last feel a baby move in your body??????
to wowey:
1. abortion originally was set up on specific stages On the “trimester system”. at which point a fetus begins to move in the womb, I do not know. But even then the fetus is not a fully developed baby or child.
“Vass you dare, Charlie” or is it all from you book reading?????? your
to wowey:
wht is vass you dare? speak English please! by the way my name is not charlie, my name is stated at the top of the post woey girl!
Killing babies is DEHUMANIZING especially when you call them non human beings. What inhumane filth.
I have no need to GRASP at anything. I have a clear understanding of abortion. People are killing their babies in a place where the child should be the safest – in the womb. All of your DNA as a human being was present at conception.
Trying to quote me what historians say about the Bible doesn’t mean a thing to me. Romans 1 26 – 27 explicitly States God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion
If they would research statistics on those who follow a gay lifestyle concerning life span, emotional problems, disease and likelihood of being injured (by both gays and straights), they might have some inkling of what “…received in themselves the due penalty of their perversion…” might mean.
God loves mankind and wants it to have a joyful life. Therefore He warns us to not indulge in behaviors that harm us personally and all of society.
The breakdown of the family unit injures our whole society.
Thank you for putting the truth out!
to Mary brumley:
1. gay life style has no ore decease dissociated with them than than straights, there are desease that both shes in common..
2.your next comment :” received in themselves the due penalty of their perversion…” might mean” is applicable to both styles both streight and gays.
3. there is no comandment thjat says” tou shalt not be gay or homossexual”, but there is a commandment that says” thou shalt not bear faults witness”. this means we re not to denie how and whom ( the type of person) god has created. gays re creaed this way, just as xstreights re created steight. Jesus taught on this concerni8ng eunichs. Mathew 19:12 or there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who
have been made eunuchs by others–and there are those who choose to live
like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can
accept this should accept it.” This means
1. gays who wre considered eunuch because they do no reproduce and are not interested in the opposite sex are considered eunuchs
2. then there re those who were made eunuch by man through castration, and those who just chose to remain eunuch for the sake of the kingdom.
Lastly gays do not weaken the family unit, they strengthen it by becoming part of the family unit, and your welcome for putting the truth out there. as a rev. tht part of my responsibility.
TO BLACK DAHILIA:
1. OK, THE TERNM USE OF hO,HOMOSEXUAL” IS NOT A CORRECT TRANSLATION. the term is a modern term, did not exist in Bible times of that erra, there were no Aramaic, Greek nor Hebrew words that translated directly into the term “homosexual”.
2. the terms greek term used in the original language were MOlikoi, and arsdinikoi, both terms were related and directly connected to the shrine temple prostitution Idolatry issues so prominent in Rome and Corinth at that time. this is the issue Paul was addressing.This issue was a prevailing issue through the Old testament as well.
Paul a convert would have been well aware and experienced in that activity, He( as “Paul of tarsus” he was a persecutor of Christians) did not learn under the direct auspice teaching of Jesus Christ, he converted after his encounter with god on the road to Damascus, at which point God renamed him Paul.
3. the activity described in Romans was the shrine templr prostitution idolotry activity, not homosexuality in of its serlf, besides you should not put the epitles(letters of the apostles, which about 33 of them were writing by Paul) above the authority of the “gospel of Jesus Christ”.
4. Jesus explicity said” he had been given all authority in heaven and Earth”, Mathew 28:18hen Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me..
The activity described in Romans is a direct CONDEMNATION OF HOMOSEXUALITY BY ANY NAME YOU WITH TO GIVE IT. Nothing you can do to change that. The word homosexual did not come into our own language until recently. We had other words to describe it. Homosexuality by any name is still homosexuality.
The Apostle Paul spoke on direct authority from JESUS. ◄ John 14:26 ►
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Dr. Michael Brown quote
Number one, in Matthew 5, Jesus said he didn’t come to abolish the Torah but to fulfill. He takes the sexual morals of the Torah to a higher level. Number two, in Matthew 15, he says all sexual acts committed outside of marriage defile a human being. And in Matthew 19 he says marriage as God intended it is the union of one man and one woman for life.
t
to black dahlia: this again is going to be a long read
1.
The condemnation in romans inot a direct
condemnation of homosexuality, no matter how much you wish to twist your scriptural
understanding to accommodate your desire to condemn and judge something that god did not do. You need to accept the
authority of Jesus Christ, put it in its [proper scriptural authority mam!
2.
Thanks for at least somewhat admitting, acknowledging
the fact that Homosexuality is a modern term “The word homosexual did not come
into our own language until recently. It actually was put in our translations
in the 50’s by conservative Bible translators as a response to the emerging
sexual revolution beginning to unfold going into the 60’s.
3.
We are not talking about we now, but about the
arra of Bible times in which Paul wrote his epistle; Now If Paul wanted to
infer Homosexuality there were words in the original Greek language he could
have used, but did not. I gave you the words he choose to use (Malikoi, and
arsinikoi), I cannot help it if you persist on denying scriptural truth and
language authenticity. The original language is clear and direct, there are well
educated scholars who have studied these scripture for decades, this as I have
given it to you, there education by far exceeds yours and mine and most others you
or I know of. God has blessed these people with knowledge of study, that should
not be cast aside or ignored just because it does not support your personal chosen
biblical understanding. 2Timithy2:15 Study to shew thyself
approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing
the word of truth. This means were to study god’s word and those works
by others who have gone before us on subjects we know little about.
4.
5. The scripture you refer to
John 14: 26 is as reference from Jesus teaching his disciples about the “Advocate,
the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all
things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Upon Jesus’s
departure. This is not a reference to Paul all though He would have access to
the holy spirit upon his conversion, he still did not learn under the direct
auspice teaching of Jesus Christ. But if you persist on believing what you
hose, you should accept the fact Paul taught on, addressed the “shrine temple
prostitution idolatry issue, not homosexuality”. No matter how much you want to
twist this, The original language usage supports
this
( the Scriptural view and understanding I have given you.
5.
Now on to your other issues “Matthew 5, Jesus
said he didn’t come to abolish the Torah but to fulfill. The reference is actually Mathew 5:17 ( it
was addressing the Mosaic law)Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law
or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
6.
Jesus could not abolish the law if He was to be its
fulfillment, in other words the sacrifice to pay sins penalty for mankind.
7.
Now “Matthew 15,and 19; you fail to give verse references
so I may address them to you.
8.
Now Jesus was God in the flesh as He taught “If
you have seen me, you have seen the fsther”
9.
John 14:9 he that hath seen me hath seen the
Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10.
Jesus being God in the flesh was all knowing; He
knowing the nature of the relationship between the centurion and his slave ( a
same sex love relationship), never condemned them or spoke negatively but used
them as an example of faith in Mathew and in Luke. The issue here is a committed
love type of relationship, I explained this very clearly in my previous post.
11.
Same sex unions done by clergy have been part of church
history for centuries.
12.
Here is an article on it.
13.
WHEN
SAME-SEX MARRIAGE WAS A CHRISTIAN RITE1
14.
By ThosPayne
15.
16.
A Kiev art museum contains
a curious icon from St. Catherine’s Monastery on Mt. Sinai in Israel. It shows
two robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman ‘pronubus’ (a
best man), overseeing a wedding. The pronubus is Christ. The married couple are
both men.
17.
Is the icon suggesting that a gay “wedding” is being
sanctified by Christ himself? The idea seems shocking. But the full answer
comes from other early Christian sources about the two men featured in the
icon, St. Sergius and St. Bacchus,2 two Roman soldiers who
were Christian martyrs. These two officers in the Roman army incurred the anger
of Emperor Maximian when they were exposed as ‘secret Christians’ by refusing
to enter a pagan temple. Both were sent to Syria circa 303 CE where Bacchus is
thought to have died while being flogged. Sergius survived torture but was
later beheaded. Legend says that Bacchus appeared to the dying Sergius as an
angel, telling him to be brave because they would soon be reunited in heaven.
18.
While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early Christian
church, was not unusual, the association of these two men was regarded as
particularly intimate. Severus, the Patriarch of Antioch (512 – 518 CE)
explained that, “we should not separate in speech they [Sergius and
Bacchus] who were joined in life”. This is not a case of simple
“adelphopoiia.” In the definitive 10th century account of their
lives, St. Sergius is openly celebrated as the “sweet companion and
lover” of St. Bacchus. Sergius and Bacchus’s close relationship has led
many modern scholars to believe they were lovers. But the most compelling
evidence for this view is that the oldest text of their martyrology, written in
New Testament Greek describes them as “erastai,” or “lovers”. In
other words, they were a male homosexual couple. Their orientation and
relationship was not only acknowledged, but it was fully accepted and
celebrated by the early Christian church, which was far more tolerant than it
is today.
19.
Contrary to myth, Christianity’s concept of marriage has not been
set in stone since the days of Christ, but has constantly evolved as a concept
and ritual.
20.
Prof. John Boswell3, the late Chairman of Yale
University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual
marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there
were also ceremonies called the “Office of Same-Sex Union”
(10th and 11th century), and the “Order for Uniting Two Men”
(11th and 12th century).
21.
These church rites had all the symbols of a heterosexual marriage:
the whole community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the
altar was conducted with their right hands joined, holy vows were exchanged, a
priest officiatied in the taking of the Eucharist and a wedding feast for the
guests was celebrated afterwards. These elements all appear in contemporary
illustrations of the holy union of the Byzantine Warrior-Emperor, Basil the
First (867-886 CE) and his companion John.
22.
Such same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in
Ireland in the late 12th and early 13th centuries, as the chronicler Gerald of
Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded.
23.
Same-sex unions in pre-modern Europe list in great detail some
same gender ceremonies found in ancient church liturgical documents. One Greek
13th century rite, “Order for Solemn Same-Sex Union”, invoked St.
Serge and St. Bacchus, and called on God to “vouchsafe unto these, Thy
servants [N and N], the grace to love one another and to abide without hate and
not be the cause of scandal all the days of their lives, with the help of the
Holy Mother of God, and all Thy saints”. The ceremony concludes: “And
they shall kiss the Holy Gospel and each other, and it shall be
concluded”.
24.
Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic “Office of the Same Sex
Union”, uniting two men or two women, had the couple lay their right hands
on the Gospel while having a crucifix placed in their left hands. After kissing
the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each other, after which the
priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them both communion.
25.
Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such
diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in
Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th
century.
26.
The Dominican missionary and Prior, Jacques Goar (1601-1653),
includes such ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek Orthodox prayer
books, “Euchologion Sive Rituale Graecorum Complectens Ritus Et Ordines Divinae
Liturgiae” (Paris, 1667).
27.
While homosexuality was technically illegal from late Roman times,
homophobic writings didn’t appear in Western Europe until the late 14th
century. Even then, church-consecrated same sex unions continued to take place.
28.
At St. John Lateran in Rome (traditionally the Pope’s parish
church) in 1578, as many as thirteen same-gender couples were joined during a
high Mass and with the cooperation of the Vatican clergy, “taking
communion together, using the same nuptial Scripture, after which they slept
and ate together” according to a contemporary report. Another woman to
woman union is recorded in Dalmatia in the 18th century.
29.
Prof. Boswell’s academic study is so well researched and
documented that it poses fundamental questions for both modern church leaders
and heterosexual Christians about their own modern attitudes towards
homosexuality.
30.
For the Church to ignore the evidence in its own archives would be
cowardly and deceptive. The evidence convincingly shows that what the modern
church claims has always been its unchanging attitude towards homosexuality is,
in fact, nothing of the sort.
31.
It proves that for the last two millennia, in parish churches and
cathedrals throughout Christendom, from Ireland to Istanbul and even in the
heart of Rome itself, homosexual relationships were accepted as valid
expressions of a [Christian] god-given love and commitment to another person, a
love that could be celebrated, honored and blessed, through the Eucharist in
the name of, and in the presence of, Jesus Christ.
32.
“… in the evening
the youth came to him [Jesus], wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And
he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the
Kingdom of God. And thence, arising, he returned to the other side of the
Jordan.” —The Secret Gospel of Mark, The Other Bible, Willis
Barnstone, Editor, Harper & Row, San Francisco, 1984, pp. 339-342.
33.
34.
Source:
35.
1. ColfaxRecord.com;
Retrieved 6 Jul 2009, 1830 PST [ http://www.colfaxrecord.com/detail/91429.html ]
36.
2. Saints Sergius & Bacchus, Roman martyrs. Their Catholic feast
day is October 7th. Catholic Encyclopedia [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13728a.htm ]
37. 3. John Eastburn Boswell (American Council of Learned
Societies); Same-Sex Unions in
Premodern Europe, Random House, June
38.
atthew 28:18New International Version (NIV)
39.
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven
and on earth has been given to me.
I study to show myself proved revDan.
This has been studied ad nauseum my dear…..”For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural [phusikan] function [xrasin] for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire [orexis] toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error,” (Rom. 1:26-27, NASB).
The passage has several important words worth looking at, but for our examination we’ll look at the words “natural function” (“natural use,” KJV). Let’s take a look at how different Bibles translate the Greek into English.
“natural function” – NASB
“natural relations” – ESV, NIV, RSV
“natural use” – ASV, Darby, GNT, KJV, NKJV, YLT
“natural sexual function” – ISV
“natural intercourse” – NRSV
We are not talking about a person’s alleged natural sexual orientation. Instead, we are talking about “natural function,” natural use. If the text only said “natural” and not “natural function/use,” then the homosexual’s argument might be stronger. But, the text doesn’t help them. If the word “natural” in this context means “natural sexual orientation” then why does Paul add the word “function” and not something like “preference” (Rom. 12:9, NASB), or “choice” (Rom. 9:11), or “inclination” (1 Cor. 11:16), or “desire” (Rom. 1:27; 10:1)? Furthermore, verse 27 says that the “men abandoned the natural function of the woman.” By definition, “men” and “woman” are gender specific words. What is the man’s natural function of the woman? Sex! Is Paul saying the natural function of the man with the woman is really about natural desire of men with men? That would be ridiculous. Instead, the words are used in the context of sexual activity – a man’s natural function with the woman (v. 27). “Function” and “use” here are not about preference, but about sex.
The Greek Says…
The Greek for “natural function” are φυσικὴν χρῆσιν, phusikan krasis.
“natural” – phusikan, 1) produced by nature, inborn, 2) agreeable to nature, 3) governed by (the instincts of) nature1
“function” – Only two instances in N.T. Rom. 1:26,27. χρῆσις, εως, ἡ use made of anything, usage; more specifically of sexual intercourse function, sexual use (RO 1.26, 27)2
The issue is not one’s natural orientation or one’s natural preference, but of natural function. Preference is internal. Function, in this context, is biological and is related to design; which is why Paul tells us that the men gave up the natural function (“use” KJV) of the woman and burned for other men. There is nothing here about sexual orientation. It is about sexual function where the norm is male and female, not male and male, or female and female.
to lback dahlai:
no most of what you quoted and addressing is dealing with the shrine temple prostitution idolatry activity dear where sex orgies were common. Paul is describing the activity what he was familiar with in Rome and in Corinth relating to the shrine temple activity, which he probably participated in at one point in his life as a Roman citizen until his conversion.Again its not a condemnation on homosexuality, but a condemnation on sexual activity being made par t of worship. at that time gentiles were converting to the christian faith in large numbers inundating the early church, and along with them, they brought the shrine temple activity ( because they not mature Christians view the shrine temple stuff as a religious rite),. this is what Paul is addressing in the early church to clean it up from the shrine temple stuff
It doesn’t say anything about shrine temple prostitution – IT DOES SAY THAT HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR IS PERVERSION. Nothing you can do about it. Paul has precedent in the OLD TESTAMENT AS WELL AS THE NEW TESTAMENT.
Lev. 18:22
‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” (NASB)
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” (ESV, NKJV)
Clearly, the Old Testament condemns homosexuality. What else does it mean when it says “you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female”? The term “lie with” here refers to sexual intercourse in the phrase “lie with a male as one lies with a female.” It is an abomination. The word here is תֹּועֵבָה towʿebah, toʿebah.
117 occurrences; AV translates as “abomination” 113 times, “abominable thing” twice, and “abominable” twice. 1 a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable. 1a in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages). 1b in ethical sense (of wickedness etc. ).1
Lev. 20:13
“If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.” (NASB)
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” (ESV)
The word “detestable” is the same Hebrew word found in Lev. 18:22, “abomination.”
There can be no doubt that the Old Testament condemns homosexuality as a detestable act worthy of death. But we might ask, why such harsh penalty for a simple “sexual orientation”? The answer lies in the overall context in which the Old Testament is written. God had promised the Messiah who would be the Savior, the Deliverer of people from the judgment of God. If homosexuality was to run rampant, it would threaten the arrival of the Messiah and thereby make God’s Word invalid (essentially making God a liar), and this cannot be. Since God works through people, he provided the harshness of the law in order to guard people from their own sins, the sins of others, and ultimately provide a way by which the Messiah would come and die on the cross for our sins.
Of course, the Old Testament Law is no longer in effect in this area because the Messiah has come, and we are not under a theocratic governmental system. Therefore, we are not to execute homosexuals. We are to pray for them and their repentance, so they might find salvation in Christ.
We are not under the Old Testament Law
God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. This signifies that God ordained order of male and female–not male and male or female and female. This is important because it was before the Mosaic Law was given. The Mosaic Law properly reflects the created order of God that excluded homosexuality.
to blsvk dahlia:
obviously you have not studied church history or cultural history. if you had you would have learned much of the activities that were practiced in cultural setting dealing with idolatry worship!( the worship of other gods Fertility gods etc)
your comment on this issue really does you an injustice on your claim to be in translation studies and claim to have been involved in a class relating to it.
1. The Bile doesn’t specifically spell out “shrine temple worship out” but it is common knowledge and historical fact of its activity dear and how extensive it was in both Rome, and Corinth among gentiles and the roman citizenry. Bible classes I had in Bible school taught this very clearly, we had to study it
Now Paul does not have president in neither the new or Old testament , He was a convert who never learned under the direct auspice teaching of Jesus Christ, i told you this before.Learn it, breeth, it live it!
Pauls teaching does not over ride or exceed Gods teaching through His Son Jesus Christ dear, Paul is not God, Jesus Christ is God in the flesh as both new testament and old testament teaches. I can’t believe just how messed up your Scriptural understanding is, it is not only bad, but heretical nature.
The use of Abomination in the Old testament reference you refer too is dealing with the “holiness code” not condemning homosexuality.
one of the prevailing issues through out the Old testament (especially being dealt with here, going into the New testament is the “shrine temple prostitution idolatry activity. as One tribe fought with another, the conquered tribe would be either wiped out, including men, women and children, or taken into captivity
as slaves or servants of sorts, and required to adopt the victors tribes way of life including worshiping the God or gods. of that tribe. so as time went on the Jewish people adopted the Holiness code to try to preserve a sense of Holiness in their lives and keep their Jewish faith and heritage hence forth the “holiness code”. you logic in explanation is flawed the coming of the Messiah is not effected by homosexuality, its affected by the shrine temple stuff prevalent during the time sins were the wrohip of other gods and incorporating sexual activity into their worship orgies etc.
we re to encourage all to salvation to Christ, and yes a gay person can be gay and a christian. If he or she accepts Christ as their savor, they are a christian , saved by the blood of the lamb and under no penalty if they honor Christ as their savior. the mosaic law did not exclude homosexuality, their is no commandment that says”thou shalt not be gay or homosexual”, but their is one that states, thou shalt not bear faults witness”.
I quoted the word of God dealing with homosexuality in all of its forms. The ban on homo sexuality since the beginning of time until now is forever settled. It is an Abomination and a perversion in the eyes of God. Nothing you or anyone else can do to change God’s word it is forever settled in heaven. If you are engaging in homosexual practice the only thing you can do to help yourself would be to stop. The Bible explicitly tells you and everyone else that homo sexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God
Your feeble excuse of shrine prostitution has nothing to do with the fact that in both the Old and New Testament homosexuality is condemned. It is an Abomination and a perversion.
I am address HOMOSEXUAL PERVERSION AS DOES GOD….
However, there are abominations that did not apply only to Israel–but everyone.
“You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. 23 Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion. 24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled.”
The land became defiled due to the abominations of homosexuality and bestiality from those who lived in the land before the Jews, so it is not just an issue for the Jews under the Law (Lev. 18:22-29). God considered their homosexuality to be an abomination for everyone. So, the argument that we Christians are not under the Law doesn’t work because the non-Jews of ancient times were not under Jewish law, and their homosexuality was called an abomination.
Jeff Allen is another one of my favorite reads…..too much to put here but this example is still good.
With the possible exception of one citation, all of Paul’s seven references to “nature” (1 Cor. 11:14-15; Rom. 2:14, 2:27, 11:21, 24; Gal. 2:15, 4:8) denote the biological function or the created order established by God. In the case of Rom. 1:26, the specific meaning of “against or contrary to nature” (para physin) is unequivocally determined by the immediate context. When Paul refers to the way that women “exchanged” (vs. 26) (metēllaxan) and men “gave up” (vs. 27) (aphentes) “natural relations” (vss. 26 and 27) (physikēn chrēsin) with the opposite sex, any objective and unbiased reader immediately understands what is being described. This passage is unambiguously referring to the perverse rejection of the gender differentiation of human beings as male and female, and the abandonment of the unique, complementary sexual union that can only occur between the two genders. The Greek word chrēsin also points specifically to the biological functionality of the reproductive organs during heterosexual intercourse – an anatomical interaction that absolutely does not, and cannot, occur during same-sex encounters.
Sin has been a part of humanity sin Adam and Eve. Saying clergy sin doesn’t impress me – try something else.
ALSO Jesus did not believe in homosexual marriage and neither does any true Christians….Matthew 19:5
man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?
The word itself is a modern day act. Homosexuality is condemned in no uncertain terms in the Old and New Testaments. God himself stated very plainly I have created them male and female.
The Meaning of the Word Fetus Shows the Humanity of the Preborn Fetus: Words Have Meanings. … It is also interesting to note that, in Latin, “fetus” means “little one,” referring to the relatively small size of the preborn baby. In other words, the meaning of the word fetus provides a description of how babies appear to us in the early stages of development.
to blsvck dahlia:
Ok so in Latin the word has a different understanding, were not dealing with Latin, but American understanding, lets not con volute the issue by trying to bring other languages that do not govern the English understanding.
Fetus- young one. Not gonna change because it makes it easier for you to kill your child.
to black dahila:
1. ok you believe what you wish, no skin off my nose. fetus is a fetus not a child.
your way of believing is no more right than anyone eles’s dear! good luck to You, have a great life!
At present it means nothing….unfortunately on judgment day it will be a lot. Until then…..
to blak dahila:
1. that is why I put my faith and trust of the well being of my soul and spirit in god and His word, not M IN another person’s biblical interpretation or understanding, including yours!
Not my interpretation. God through his word has made it very plain that sex outside of marriage between a man and a women is not his design for mankind. You are free to do as you please. Just be aware of the consequences. See you on judgment day…
To black dahlia:
That’s just it “your interpretation’ only god’s word is the same yesterday, today and
tomorrow, it cannot mean something different today or tomorrow what it did not
mean in Biblical times. On judgment day yes well see each other, I put my
spiritual health and well bring and my faith of Gods teaching throughout His Son
“Jesus Christ”, not in mans scriptural understanding or teaching of it.I am a follower of god through His
teaching by Jesus Christ not mans. You are free to be a follower of mans, and
not Gods good luck to you!
In another comment you posted you referred to a old
testament passage about Gods creation man and a women.
1. You need to realize God through His son made
several references to Old testament passages to solidify himself “Jesus Christ”
as the one to whom the prophets of old prophesied about. His teaching was a
radical departure from the religious leaders teaching, Jesus had to solidify
His authenticity to the people.
In your old testament
reference you are correct ;but it does
not nullify Gods teaching in Matthew 8:5-13 & Luke 7:2-10 on
the centurion and his slave, nor does it nullify his teaching concerning Eunuchs,
nor does it nullify His teaching in John John 1:1-3;
1 In the
beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same
was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and
without him was not anything made that was made.
Note:all
means all , its all-inclusive dear, which means god is the creator and author
of gay people as well.
If homosexuals don’t fit into your little box of beliefs, let’s not squeeze them in by trying
to change how God created them.
Instead, build
a bigger box or expand one’s beliefs to more closely reflect the “Gospel of Jesus Christ,” which is all-inclusive. Trust God and leave judgment in God’s own capable hands.
Jesus never turned people away, not
even those ejected by others.
2. The religious leaders of Jesus day had perverted
the Jewish faith to a point that it was about as Evil and corrupt just about as bad as the
Roman Empire, thy created a religious capitol punishment called stoning of
those who challenged their teaching and elite status. THey turned the Jewish
faith into “legalism” with about 600 or so rules and regulations which not even
they could not keep all. They made un-Holy ties to the roman Government through
Pontius Pilate “the Roman governor” as described
in all (4) Gospel books. They became
the epitome of hat we call today “organized religion”. Christianity is a faith not a religion, just as the Jewish believe is a faith as God originally
established it, it is not a religion.
3. Also the
clergy in the article I gave you just followed Jesus example concerning the
centurion and his slave by honoring a love committed relationship. That is not
sin. It does show and demonstrate God honors a love committed relationship dear
whether you like it, disagree or not. Scripture
is scripture hat was a committed relationship,
yes I do agree about our marriage comment, that is probably why early clergy
married same sex people relationships. By honoring Jesus actions and teaching
concerning the centenarian and his slave.
4. Now lastly I sense God’s Holy spirit telling to separate
myself from this conversation and from you; because you constantly bear faults
witness of god and His word by make in -appropriate scriptural connections to boast
your human understanding teaching, not god’s. I tend to think; you being a straight
women can’t understand gay people, instead you use god and His word to pass
judgment on them. I know you have good intentions, but that falls short of
correct Biblical teaching. I truly undrtsand If gays think of sex between them and the opposite sex euch! how repulsive to be with some one thy are not drawn to or attracted too.
5. For me to continue this is only enabling your
sin of bearing faults witness of God and His Word. I must separate myself that I
don’t become a party to your continual sinning. Bearing faults witness is a
serious issue.
6. I do ask God to bless you with His love and
Grace to show all people His love and grace
regardless of your personal opinion’s and biblical scriptural
understanding, in how you apply them.
7. So “Black dahilia, I will now gracefully bow
out.
8. Be blessed and good by REV Dan. take care dear!
I don’t interpret anything but I do rely heavily on those who speak ancient Hebrew and Greek and Translate our Bibles. You know the ones that you claim to read. These passages against homosexuality have remained the same since the beginning when they were first written. Nothing you could do to change it except to complain.
to black dahila:
1. I am not interpreting either, but I use highly educated people who are Bible scholars whose expertise is in those areas, as the one I quoted in my comment to you on this issue, “Kenneth Dover” is a bible scholar, an acknowledge authority on both Greek culture and language. his expertise by far exceeds yours and my knowledge, probably including any one you or I know cumulatively on this topic. I gave you the the fruits of his study, I can do no more for you.
2.Once again you bear faults witness by denying biblical truth as I have explain it to you. because you want to simply be condescending it does not support what you choose to think or believe, your pride is getting in your way , your down fall.
3. your right, these passages have been the same since the beginning when they were first written. . there for dear you need to accept the biblical truth as it has been explain to you by myself and by reputable Biblical scholars like Kenneth Dover.
4. all you can do is complain about your being wrong. God is and will be our judge, lets leave it there and put tis discussion to rest.
5. If you don’t, I will block you, meaning the system will not notify me of any more of you responses. As I told you before, I will not be party to your sin of bearing faults witness of God, His word any longer,
6.put it to rest!
good day dear!
No you haven’t used Highly Educated people who are very well-versed in the Bible. The Bible very plainly states to anyone who can read homosexuality is forbidden in the Old and New Testaments. I’m here at a Bible Seminary we do nothing but interpret Bibles and produce theologist. You are sadly mistaken and looking for an excuse to sin. May God have mercy upon you and anyone who is trying to lead the people astray. God has created US male and female. You cannot change this. Shame on you. You will answer to God for Leading the People astray.
a
to black dahlia: Yes i did use highly educated people, check out Sir Kenneth Dover on google you will see, he by far probably exceeds those who are teaching in your seminary, and you are wrong on both your claim in the old and hew testament! Once again you bear faults witness, this time against me, I am not looking for any excuse to sin, but you clear are looking for any excuse to deny Gods Scriptural truth in the original language to avoid admitting you wrong and erred. I only seek Gods truth as he has stated according to The original language written dover has done a great deal of word studies,in the languages of the Greek text, I gave you his findings. time for you to stop the bs, and get off your self-righteous high horse holier than thou attitude.
yes god did crest male and female, but shame on you for denying His word in John,and in mstthew concerning the centuian and slave, plus his teaching on Eunuchs etc.
John 1:1-3;
1 In the
beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same
was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and
without him was not anything made that was made.
John 1:1-3;
1 In the
beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same
was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and
without him was not anything made that was made.
these Scriptures are abundantly clear, gays are just as muvch prt of his creation as you or any straight person.
gays would not bee herte if it weren’t true, just as Satan would not be here if he was not created. God gave man “free will” you should turn against you flesh and become a follower of Jesus Christ, not of mans teaching.
and this statement ” You will answer to God for Leading the People astray. by condemning them, when God has not, apply to you as well “.
As previously stated and you simply did not understand this man is not a Biblical scholar or biblical Theologian he excelled in Greek literature and history. Neither you nor Dr Dover has can repudiate the fact that in the Old and New Testaments homosexuality is outlawed and condemned by God’s laws.
And also just so everyone knows this man Dovet is dead and has been for over 40 years. He never was a Biblical scholar and did not excel in any type of biblical languages. He was purely a secular literature and Greek scholar. The people in this Seminary are working on the Dead Sea Scrolls as we speak the people in this Seminary are interpreting Hebrew Greek Persian and Aramaic as we speak. The people in this Seminary are very well written and read all over the world.
No one dead or alive has ever been able to take out of the scriptures the fact that God himself condemned homosexuality.
Thank you I am highly favored of God because I don’t buckle under to the fact that you and your secular buddies want homosexuality forced on the people. In both the Old and New Testaments God has proclaimed homosexuality to be an Abomination and perversion. Homosexuals will not enter into the kingdom of God and they sin against their own bodies. All of this is scriptural look it up… are those of you who do not know scripture and for those of you who do know scripture this is well-known to you.
Checked him out very thoroughly my dear and he has not a theologian is not a Biblical scholar he is a dead Greek scholar. The Greeks were famous for their homosexuality. Christians do not worship the male form and do not engage in homosexuality. Homosexuality is purely of satan.
to blsav k dahlia:
Obviously you did not heck him out very good; Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at Duke University, in the Religious Studies Department.
was considered the finest
Greek scholar of his generation and seemed to have led a life of almost
oppressive decorum, crowned in 1978 by his election as President of the
British Academy, and the Chancellorship of St Andrews University (1981-2005). this mans academia, and accomplishments and understanding is virtually un matched be one one in our day.
Modern scholarship about the
centurion and pais
Centurion and pais.
Sir Kenneth Dover, a heterosexual, is the former
President of Corpus Christi College, Oxford University, and Chancellor
of the University of St. Andrews, Scotland, from 1981 until his
retirement in 2005 and a noted authority on ancient Greece. In his book,
Greek Homosexuality, he informs us that the younger partner in a homosexual relationship is called pais or paidika. This information impacts our Centurion and pais discussion.
“The pais in a homosexual relationship was often a youth who had attained full height.” p. 16.
“The Greeks often used the word paidika in the sense of ‘eromenos.’ ”[Meaning “the boy you are in love with]. p. 16. Paidika is the diminutive of pais.
“The junior partner in homosexual eros is called pais (or of course, paidika) even when he has reached adult height and hair has begun to grow on his face.” p. 85.
Dr. Dover is a recognized authority
on ancient Greek language and culture
Sir Kenneth Dover,
Noted Philologist and Greek scholar.
New York Times Book Review: “A landmark study… One cannot underestimate the importance of Mr. Dover’s book. With philological brilliance and scholarly objectivity, he presents facts that can no longer be ignored.”
American Historical Review: ”Greek Homosexuality provides, finally, an unvarnished look at Athenian homosexuality… [It is] now the standard volume on the subject.”
New York Review of Books: “Dover’s is an authoritative discussion; he is a philologist of great stature
with wide achievement as editor, commentator, and literary critic…
The subject was one which needed to be exposed to the light of day; we
can be thankful that it has been done by a great scholar and one who treats the subject without prejudice.”
more on the topic by other reputable people;
Dr. Gagnon, recognized authority
and prominent anti-gay author
Dr. Robert Gagnon,
Pittsburg Theological Seminary.
Dr. Gagnon earned the B.A. degree from Dartmouth, the M.T.S. (Master of
Theological Studies) from Harvard Divinity School and the Ph.D. (Magna
Cum Laude) from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is Associate
Professor, with tenure, at Pittsburg Theological Seminary, teaching
Greek and New Testament Exegesis. Dr. Gagnon wrote the leading antigay
apologetic, The Bible And Homosexual Practice, 520pp, published in 2001.
Abundant historical evidence
supports the assertions of Drs. Dover and Gagnon about the meaning of pais.
Dr. Gagnon certainly does not believe Matthew and Luke told the story
of the centurion and his beloved to legitimate gay relationships.
However, that Dr. Gagnon, the leading anti-gay apologist admits that pais
can describe a partner in a homosexual relationship is encouraging. His
admission lends support to the twin truths that the gay Christian view:
is not historical revisionism and is firmly rooted in historical fact.
For six hundred years before Matthew wrote his Gospel, Greek language and literature used pais to mean “a beloved lover” or “the younger partner in a same sex relationship.” That legitimates our view, that the Centurion and pais story deals with an ancient gay relationship which Jesus blessed.
First century readers
of Matthew’s Gospel in koine Greek would have picked up on the pais references which most twenty-first century English readers miss. Pais and paidika were used by writers in ancient times to refer to a lover in a homosexual relationship.
That is not the only meaning of pais but it is one of the possible meanings. According to Biblical Greek lexicons, pais
also means “manservant, son, young man or maid,” depending on context.
We have already noted that many ancient Greek writers, among them Thucydides, Eupolis, Aeschines, Plato, Callimanchus and Plutarch used pais or paidika in the sense of “beloved or same sex lover.”
Do not ignore the cultural setting
in which pais was used.
The cultural and historical setting Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke
7:1-10 addressed as they tell the Centurion and pais story is vitally
important. Both Matthew and Luke use the Greek word pais to describe the Centurion’s relationship with his “servant.” They used the word pais
at a time when that word had definite same sex meaning when used as
they used it, to refer to the relationship between a Roman Centurion and
his “beloved” pais or servant.
Should we ignore their choice of words because it makes some
Christians uncomfortable? Should we ignore the truth of history because
it does not fit the anti-gay agenda of some Christians? Does
under-standing the common meaning of pais as “beloved or same sex lover” place the Centurion and pais story squarely in the cultural context Matthew and Luke addressed? Yes, it certainly does.
I checked him out very well we all have we know that he is not a Biblical scholar nor is he a theologian. He was attached to a secular study of Christianity. And even if he wasn’t he cannot thwart the word of God which condemns has homosexuality in both the Old and New Testaments.
You obviously did not check your doctor Dover out very well. He is neither a theologian nor a Biblical scholar.
A very excellent read would be Dr. Michael Brown a Hebrew theologian and Messianic Jewish scholar- can you be Gay and Christian? I doubt if you will take the time to read the truth but it isn’t going away and the truth will outlive you. God created US male and female. Men and women were made by God to complement one another. Jesus himself stated that for this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one. Jesus is not a man that he could lie.
Yes, a great many intelligent people had studied religious texts but that doesn’t raise them above the level of desert fairy tales or make them real any more than Ishtar or Vishnu are real gods.
Studying religious texts is not the answer. Studying the WORD OF GOD is….yes I know you don’t know the difference.
You know nothing. I read the Bible cover to cover long before you were born & went to a religious high school for several years.
Some of it is wisdom, some fiction, some hatred, some philosophy, most of it well-meaning but in the end, it’s all the work of MEN
Too funny…satan read the bible a long time before I was born also. He, like you has no understanding either.
Anyone who takes that collection of dusty writings as, well, gospel is clueless.
And anyone who says they live by their Christian faith but supports Trump without hesitation should have Hypocrite tattooed on their foreheads.
Christians did not vote for President Trump because he was a Christian – we voted for him because of his policies!
Tower of Babel – ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT…..long ago predicted. You don’t know understand scripture…..
Besides we all know that Hillary belongs in jail. LOCK HER UP!
Matthew 6:34
Tomorrow is upon us….
Walking backwards into the future. No way to advance.
The same people who thought Obama was a Muslim are happy with Trump pretending to be a Christian and they are equally wrong on both counts.
In a tomorrow that’s not far off, you may well wake up to find that Trump & Bannon think the same of black people as they do about Muslims.
I hope there’s a place in Africa for you to run to. How’s your Swahili?
I have no idea if President Trump is a Christian or not – I voted for him because of his policies. Obama is an ideologue and a muslim sympathizer. From the Muslim perspective if your father is a muslim so you are you. If you do not practice your islamic religion you are an apostate.
Let me clear it up for you. He’s not.
For as long as I can remember and I’m not young, conservatives refused to consider any candidate who did breathe the bible. So much for tradition.
First they came for the Muslims, then Bannon came for the Jews……guess who’s next.
Need a hint? Look in the mirror.
Sweetie pie I don’t care what Obama is – just glad he is GONE WITH THE WIND. Not to worry about coming for the Islamists – they are more interested in coming for you…..
FIGHT UNTIL ALL FAITH IS FOR ALLAH…….time for you to bow down!
Won’t be bowing down to Trump
No one will be….
Obama is an ideologue…..fortunately a private citizen now….YAY TRUMP!
Private citizen? You have no idea of what he can accomplish or how many he will inspire – if he so chooses.
As a *former* president, he can’t sign laws or executive orders, but he also isn’t subject to obstruction by Congress and he’s very much admired abroad.
Maybe he’ll disappear into private life – maybe.
But maybe not. And then there’s Michelle…..
Great, let him “accomplish” what he wishes out of the White House I think that he should go where he is admired ……abroad. Great place for him.
Great – cheer them on. For now though – IT IS PRESIDENT TRUMP!
We know what he accomplished in the eight years he was in office; it will take us 50 years to get our economy back on track and our debt reduced to a sensible and realistic level. It will take us years and years to restore the respect, equality and racial and minority relationships we had built up before Obama destroyed it!
I have real problems trying to find anything the Democrats really accomplished anything good in the Obama years. What “good” things can he honestly claim for the people here, in the United States! The only credit he is due is recognition for being a great speaker; all else ends at that point – – just as it did as he walked off the stage and never followed through on anything he said.
Trump has already shown more ability in one week to get things done than Obama did in his eight years; JUST THINK – IF Obama had the leadership, management and project management skills Trump has and the Trump ability to get things done, he (Obama) might have been one of our greatest presidents.
Trump sure lacks the great speaking abilities of Obama – but if his first week is a suggestion of things to come – America will soon see respect for each other, a sounder economy, new respect for our government and justice and a restoration of American values.
All Trump has done so far is sign a bunch of pre-written executive orders that have no framework to support them. But ruling by executive order is only bad when Obama does it. There will be legal challenges and Congress will have to find the money to pay for his rightwingnut pipe dreams – and there’ll be little to be found.
What happened to Mexico paying for that beautiful wall? That quickly became a 20% tax that would have to be paid by Americans – and then retracted ONE hour later when someone in that confederacy of dunces that surrounds him finally got 2 brain cells working together.
He says he wants to expand the military, already the most expensive in the world?
Great! And where’s the money for that coming from? From sales of POTUS-branded water & steaks?
Maybe from cutting Social Security & Medicare? Can’t wait to see the Grey Army revolt on that front. That’ll make the Women’s March look like a Girl Guide picnic.
And he wants to cut taxes, too? The Tax Policy Center says his plan will reduce federal receipts by $9.5 TRILLION in the 1st 10 years and increase the debt.
Let’s say he somehow manages to cut the number of government employees by 1 million and assume each one costs about $100,000 – that would save $100 billion a year which is only 10% of what’s needed to offset the tax cut.
It should quickly become apparent that he can’t accomplish what he claimed and even the attempt will be bigly expensive.
These 1st hundred days are going to be very entertaining, but not so much for those who elected him
First – the concern about a 20% tariff added to materials coming in from Mexico; is it that you do not shop the grocery store? Look at the amount of produce coming in from Mexico; it begs an answer to 2 questions; 1) Why has the price of this produced jumped so high in the last year (months), and, 2), if the illegals are allowed to come into our country to do jobs Americans will not do, and we produce so much from our farms that we need immigrants to come here to work, – why is so much of it being imported across the borders?
AND – As far as your negativism in Trump getting anything done in the first 100 days I would suggest a review of the 2920 days of the Obama administration; what did he get done in those eight years. Most of what he did will take us 50 years to get back on track, pay off, and return civility to our streets, respect for Americans of all races, colors and religions, and respect for our nation, justice, values and society, and get our American workers back into American jobs!
I met trump ten years ago; I knew of him but had never met him face to face; without personally knowing the guy I did not really like the him. I was though impressed with his demeanor in dealing with a mutual problem. I still am not really fond of the guy but I am ready to accept him or anyone who is smart enough, capable, and ready to
take a stand against the direction our nation has been moving in the past years.
Trump, like all before him in government and in private enterprise, will stumble, will have failures, will have to eat crow and will be verbally assaulted by those who do not like him (for whatever their reasons) – but for all that has to be done, and the choices we had in seeking a person to fix the mess we are in – we had little choice. We all though need to do what we can, without the violence, without the absurdities and the false accusations, do what we can to assist Trump and our local, state and federal governments to get our nation back in shape.
What we are seeing now though is totally unprecedented; I have voted in every national and local election since 1962 and I cannot recall in any of those years such unruly, unmanaged, unnecessary media and street rebellion. We always have had objections to the policies and comments of newly elected men and women but we have always allowed them to move forward with some open and popular resistance.
BUT, in the first week of his time in office Trump has been accused of every problem Bush and Obama both created. In spite of the widely accept knowledge of how out of control our government has become, the over regulatory efforts against our businesses, ignoring the working Americans and those who have for years and years been out of work, the blind eye to the immigration mess, the out-of-control spending, the MASSIVE and Fastest growing debt in our entire history; Trump is getting the blame.
The saying goes; – the leader is responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen; – and Trump will be held accountable. We know the problems; we have faced the hardships and results of weak leadership and administrative failures. It is important that the American people voice their opinions but it should be done in an adult fashion, not standing in front or screaming mobs, waving absurd banners and posters blaming Trump for the failures of two previous presidents. We need to respect those who are ready to ensure our government is THE PEOPLE (not the mobs) – but – American values do not include the nonsense and ridiculous attacks on everything, everywhere, that seem to challenge our life styles. Not by people who create greater hate and discontent in our society; not by people who have come here in violation of
our laws and feel we should change our laws and our society to fit their desires.
The American people OWN our government – we have methods in place to manage
that government; in the past 12+ years we have seen that “control” fade and today we are seeing the results of what ignoring our laws and national programs results in. The lawlessness on our streets, the hate, rebellions, marching, accusations, tearing down our businesses, setting fires and killings is not what America was in our better days. We are better than this and we certainly need to be showing the rest of the world we are – and will be again!
.
They claim they are doing it for America – but America is not rioting on the streets, false accusations, and mob mentalities – it is time we get back to being America – we have the greatest history of any nation in the world and we should not be tarnishing that record with absurdities, lies, and threats against a return to American greatness.
“Obama is an idelogue”
What exactly do you think Trump is?
He is not wedded to any GLOBALIST ideology. He is an American first President.
If he won’t be pulling American troops out of the Middle East, Asia & Europe, he’s a GLOBALIST
I don’t think you understand what globalism is. Think nationalism vs. Globalism and then you can come to understand what I’m talking about. It has nothing to do with troops.
That can be applied to about anyone, any where In the world, believing in about anything. Obama is, Trump is, you are, we are all, in some way regardless of nationality or political beliefs!
You can’t clear up anything because you don’t know. Go back to sleep….
Just so everyone knows Kenneth Dover studied Greek history. The Greeks were submerged in homosexual filth and worshipped the male anatomy.. He was not a theologian nor Biblical scholar. He was a man who studied Greek history which was submerged in homosexuality that the Bible calls an abomination in perversion.
to black dahlia:
just so evryone knows about Kenneth Dover, you dear are nasty person to malign a scholar-ed person that he is:He a Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at Duke University, in the Religious Studies Department.Yes he is a authority on greek culture and lasnguage. He also
Modern scholarship about the
centurion and pais
Centurion and pais.
Sir Kenneth Dover, a heterosexual, is the former
President of Corpus Christi College, Oxford University, and Chancellor
of the University of St. Andrews, Scotland, from 1981 until his
retirement in 2005 and a noted authority on ancient Greece. In his book,
Greek Homosexuality, he informs us that the younger partner in a homosexual relationship is called pais or paidika. This information impacts our Centurion and pais discussion.
“The pais in a homosexual relationship was often a youth who had attained full height.” p. 16.
“The Greeks often used the word paidika in the sense of ‘eromenos.’ ”[Meaning “the boy you are in love with]. p. 16. Paidika is the diminutive of pais.
“The junior partner in homosexual eros is called pais (or of course, paidika) even when he has reached adult height and hair has begun to grow on his face.” p. 85.
Now to continue with other reputable people on the subjuct:
Dr. Gagnon, recognized authority
and prominent anti-gay author
Dr. Robert Gagnon,
Pittsburg Theological Seminary.
Dr. Gagnon earned the B.A. degree from Dartmouth, the M.T.S. (Master of
Theological Studies) from Harvard Divinity School and the Ph.D. (Magna
Cum Laude) from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is Associate
Professor, with tenure, at Pittsburg Theological Seminary, teaching
Greek and New Testament Exegesis. Dr. Gagnon wrote the leading antigay
apologetic, The Bible And Homosexual Practice, 520pp, published in 2001.
Abundant historical evidence
supports the assertions of Drs. Dover and Gagnon about the meaning of pais.
Dr. Gagnon certainly does not believe Matthew and Luke told the story
of the centurion and his beloved to legitimate gay relationships.
However, that Dr. Gagnon, the leading anti-gay apologist admits that pais
can describe a partner in a homosexual relationship is encouraging. His
admission lends support to the twin truths that the gay Christian view:
is not historical revisionism and is firmly rooted in historical fact.
For six hundred years before Matthew wrote his Gospel, Greek language and literature used pais to mean “a beloved lover” or “the younger partner in a same sex relationship.” That legitimates our view, that the Centurion and pais story deals with an ancient gay relationship which Jesus blessed.
First century readers
of Matthew’s Gospel in koine Greek would have picked up on the pais references which most twenty-first century English readers miss. Pais and paidika were used by writers in ancient times to refer to a lover in a homosexual relationship.
That is not the only meaning of pais but it is one of the possible meanings. According to Biblical Greek lexicons, pais
also means “manservant, son, young man or maid,” depending on context.
We have already noted that many ancient Greek writers, among them Thucydides, Eupolis, Aeschines, Plato, Callimanchus and Plutarch used pais or paidika in the sense of “beloved or same sex lover.”
Now this proves,and supports my point and scriptural accuracy dear.
I do trust God and His word over and above anything you say or offer, you should be ashamed of your self and humble yourself to gods word of truth. put aside your error ed biblical understanding and join Gods truth.
HE IS NOT A THEOLOGIAN MY DEAR he has studied christian origins like many others..
God is not NASTY….and these are HIS WORDS….
Romans 1:26-27: “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”
. 1 Corinthian 6:9: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.”
1 Timothy 1:9:10: “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
To Black dahlia:
Wow, how you continue to lie is
beyond words, I never said he was a theologen, I said he was a scholar, and yes
he was a Biblical scholar, and I never said he was a MINISTER OF GOD’S WORD MY DEAR, you need to quite your lying
about what I said, I stated fact and truth, yes he studied origins as you
claim,but that’s part of his scholarship
studies and word studies which are extremely pertinent to this work. All your maligning
to excuse and efforts to disqualify is
not going to change his accomplishments no truth dear.
2. I have not mislead anyone on anything, but you on the
other hand do by your twisting and maligning facts to avoid admitting truth,
when you know you losing the argument.
3. I never said God was nasty, how dare you put a lie like
that on here you liar! I SAID YOU WERE NASTY, MORE TO THE POINT BEING NASTY AS
YOU ARE BEING HERE IN YOUR LAsT COMMENT. Being nasty seems to be your MO!
4. Because of what you’re doing here, you need to take your
Romans quote to heart for our self! Your Corinthians quote, and timothy quote
apply to you as well! You need to look at yourself in the mirror baby, because
you just described yourself to a tee!
5. read and weep dear, because these Are the facts! YOU AR
WRONG AND Lac K IN SCRIPTURAL COHERENTCY aplication.
Modern scholarship about the
centurion and pais
Centurion and pais.
Sir Kenneth Dover, a heterosexual, is the former President of Corpus Christi
College, Oxford University, and Chancellor of the University of St. Andrews,
Scotland, from 1981 until his retirement in 2005 and a noted authority on
ancient Greece. In his book, Greek Homosexuality, he informs us that the
younger partner in a homosexual relationship is called pais or paidika.
This information impacts our Centurion and pais discussion.
“The pais in a homosexual
relationship was often a youth who had attained full height.” p. 16.
“The Greeks often used the word paidika
in the sense of ‘eromenos.’ ”[Meaning “the boy you are in love with]. p. 16. Paidika is the diminutive of pais.
“The junior partner in homosexual
eros is called pais (or of course, paidika) even when he has reached
adult height and hair has begun to grow on his face.” p. 85.
Dr. Dover is a recognized authority
on ancient Greek language and culture
Sir Kenneth Dover,
Noted
Philologist and Greek scholar.
New York Times Book Review: “A landmark study… One cannot
underestimate the importance of Mr. Dover’s book. With philological
brilliance and scholarly objectivity, he presents facts that can no longer
be ignored.”
American Historical Review: ”Greek Homosexuality provides, finally, an unvarnished
look at Athenian homosexuality… [It is] now the standard volume on the
subject.”
New York Review of Books: “Dover’s is an authoritative discussion; he is a
philologist of great stature with wide achievement as editor, commentator,
and literary critic… The subject was one which needed to be exposed to the
light of day; we can be thankful that it has been done by a great scholar
and one who treats the subject without prejudice.”
Dr. Gagnon, recognized authority
and prominent anti-gay author
Dr.
Robert Gagnon,
Pittsburg
Theological Seminary.
Dr. Gagnon earned the B.A. degree from Dartmouth, the M.T.S. (Master of
Theological Studies) from Harvard Divinity School and the Ph.D. (Magna Cum
Laude) from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is Associate Professor, with tenure,
at Pittsburg Theological Seminary, teaching Greek and New Testament Exegesis.
Dr. Gagnon wrote the leading antigay apologetic, The Bible And Homosexual
Any of us can be a minister of God’s word that does not mean that we are biblical Scholars or that we have completed Seminary. Stop trying to be misleading. Dr Dover with merely a scholar of Greek literature and history. The New Testament was written in Greek.
I quoted you God’s words and you called it nasty. God calls homosexual behavior and Abomination and perversion which is nasty. If you are engaging in this nasty Behavior please cease and desist and make yourself right with God.
We who believe the WORD OF GOD are MINISTER’S OF GOD’S WORD MY DEAR….
The result of a society’s rejection of God’s rule in their lives is that God gives “them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator” (Romans 1:24–25). Verses 26 and 27 say, “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.” The phrase “God gave them over” means that when we insist on shaking our fists at God, He finally lets us have the perversion we demand. And that is a judgment in itself. Homosexual behavior is the result of ignoring God and trying to create our own truth. When we defy God’s clear instruction, we reap the “due penalty” of our disobedience (2 Thessalonians 1:8–9; Revelation 21:8).
The good news is that homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin. It is forgivable just like greed, theft, and murder are forgivable when we repent and turn to Jesus (Acts 2:38
To Black dahlia:
Wow, how you continue to lie is
beyond words, I never said he was a theologian, I said he was a scholar, and yes
he was a Biblical scholar, and I never said he was a MINISTER OF GOD’S WORD MY DEAR, you need to quite your lying
about what I said, I stated fact and truth, yes he studied origins as you
claim,but that’s part of his scholarship
studies and word studies which are extremely pertinent to this work. All your maligning
to excuse and efforts to disqualify is
not going to change his accomplishments no truth dear.
2. I have not mislead anyone on anything, but you on the
other hand do by your twisting and maligning facts to avoid admitting truth,
when you know you losing the argument.
3. I never said God was nasty, how dare you put a lie like
that on here you liar! I SAID YOU WERE NASTY, MORE TO THE POINT BEING NASTY AS
YOU ARE BEING HERE IN YOUR LAsT COMMENT. Being nasty seems to be your MO!
4. Because of what you’re doing here, you need to take your
Romans quote to heart for our self! Your Corinthians quote, and timothy quote
apply to you as well! You need to look at yourself in the mirror baby, because
you just described yourself to a tee!
5. read and weep dear, because these Are the facts! YOU AR
WRONG AND Lac K IN SCRIPTURAL COHERENTCY aplication.
Modern scholarship about the
centurion and pais
Centurion and pais.
Sir Kenneth Dover, a heterosexual, is the former President of Corpus Christi
College, Oxford University, and Chancellor of the University of St. Andrews,
Scotland, from 1981 until his retirement in 2005 and a noted authority on
ancient Greece. In his book, Greek Homosexuality, he informs us that the
younger partner in a homosexual relationship is called pais or paidika.
This information impacts our Centurion and pais discussion.
“The pais in a homosexual
relationship was often a youth who had attained full height.” p. 16.
“The Greeks often used the word paidika
in the sense of ‘eromenos.’ ”[Meaning “the boy you are in love with]. p. 16. Paidika is the diminutive of pais.
“The junior partner in homosexual
eros is called pais (or of course, paidika) even when he has reached
adult height and hair has begun to grow on his face.” p. 85.
Dr. Dover is a recognized authority
on ancient Greek language and culture
Sir Kenneth Dover,
Noted
Philologist and Greek scholar.
New York Times Book Review: “A landmark study… One cannot
underestimate the importance of Mr. Dover’s book. With philological
brilliance and scholarly objectivity, he presents facts that can no longer
be ignored.”
American Historical Review: ”Greek Homosexuality provides, finally, an unvarnished
look at Athenian homosexuality… [It is] now the standard volume on the
subject.”
New York Review of Books: “Dover’s is an authoritative discussion; he is a
philologist of great stature with wide achievement as editor, commentator,
and literary critic… The subject was one which needed to be exposed to the
light of day; we can be thankful that it has been done by a great scholar
and one who treats the subject without prejudice.”
Dr. Gagnon, recognized authority
and prominent anti-gay author
Dr.
Robert Gagnon,
Pittsburg
Theological Seminary.
Dr. Gagnon earned the B.A. degree from Dartmouth, the M.T.S. (Master of
Theological Studies) from Harvard Divinity School and the Ph.D. (Magna Cum
Laude) from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is Associate Professor, with
tenure, at Pittsburg Theological Seminary, teaching Greek and New Testament
Exegesis. Dr. Gagnon wrote the leading antigay apologetic, The Bible And
Homosexual
You are deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you it doesn’t matter what doctor Dover says. The word of God in both the Old and New Testaments testify from the God of all creation that homosexuality is an Abomination and perversion to him.
to black dahlia:
no your way wrong, and way out of line!! the truth is in me because God, and His holy Spirit is in me dear my scriptural understanding and compliance is not determined by you or depend on you, you heretical knowledge of god or your application. once again you ly like a dog( not saying your a dog, had to clarify because i don’t trust you, you would more than likly accuse me of something not true), your are wrong on your claim “e word of God in both the Old and New Testaments testify from the God of
all creation that homosexuality is an Abomination and perversion to
him. the word is specifying certain cultural things that certain tribes have indulged in concerning worshiping in Idolatry issues. Yuou hsave not dtudied the bible altough your capable of quoting out of cultural and scriptural context of the times in which it is saddressing, get off the pot and with the program. you Biblical immaturity and illiteracy is very apparent, and precends you dear!
I have not decieve myserlf nor any one else, God;s holy Spirit as he reveals himself does not lie, that is what i depend on and the varify it with His word!.
The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.
tp black dahlia:
1. how many times do you have to be told, Paul is addressing the “Shrine temple prostitution idolatry activity bot homosexuality, all history teaching both biblical and cultural history sys this, your reusal to acknowledge tis truth is decieving you and mis representing God and his WORD, IT MAKE YOU A HERTIC AND ONE F A REPROBATE MIND, HRD HESRTED WITH NO RATIONAL TO YOUR THINKING.
you exhibiting act contrary to sound doctrine.remember most of the epistles books written by the apostles, were written by paul, so many of them re going to be very similar asd they address s issue of their time. No homosexuality is not a sin againt god, if it werre so He would have addressed it as uch but did not, you should stop putting the epistles above the authority of the gospel of Jesus Christ! you mis leading people and putting them in bondage a sin!
Paul in no uncertain terms is addressing homosexuality no matter where it occurs.
To black dahlia:
1. No you re incorrect, Paul in NO uncertain terms
is addressing the “SHRINE TEMPLE ACTIVITY” that was perverting the early
established church as He saw it happening, NOT HOMOSEXUALITY.
2. By you persistent Un-scriptural believe and
application shows you truly are not educated in history of cultures in relation to the Biblical and the backgrounds of its writing as it relates
to Gods Word and what God’s word is addressing.
3. I have 4 years of formal Bible College training
on this, while continuing my education through self-studies beyond college. I
have learned a great deal concerning the Bibles usage, application, and I take God’s
Holy message very seriously, because it is a Holy message that needs to be
protected from mis use and wrongly applying it. Used wrongly it can be very destructive.
By what I’ve seen thus far from you; You have
been using it wrongly.
4. Again and again you have revealed into me your
mean spiritedness, and willingness to use God His Holy Word to advance that
mean Spiritedness at the risk of being heretical. You cherry pick verses out of
their biblical and historical context to
support your chosen attitude hate and biases,
and self-righteousness.
5. What frustrates you is; that Now you’ve run
into some who will not let you get by with it by your abusing Gods word to turn it into something
it does not say, or what was being properly addressed to satisfy or justify the believe you choose to reflect. I now understand some
of the difficulties you have in your family you alluded to in your comment about your background.
6. I have used exceptionally educated people to
enlighten my understanding where I educationally fall short. Your education and
resources can’t even begin to match them.
7. As I said before I follow the leading of the
Holy Spirit, and trust His leading to bring the people I need across my path when needed. That trust by far exceeds my trust concerning you.
8. Look, we can keep going around and around in
circles here, something I am not interested in doing. Obviously we are not
going to resolved this to neither ones satisfaction. I can live with that,because in the end I know I’m a saved child of God covered by His blood, and those
who are gay, who have accepted Jesus Christ as their savior are saved too. Mine
and their salvation is not determined by your acceptance or denial, only by God.
9. You can keep up your rhetorical comments, but that changes nothiing,and will not change anything
here.
9.
Good by and have a great day mam
Homosexuals have sold themselves out to Satan
Paul in no uncertain terms upheld what Jesus said that marriage is for men and women. Homosexuality in both the Old and New Testament is soundly condemned as perversion and Abomination. Paul aptly described the scenes of men having sex with men and women having sex with women and told us how perverted it was. Nothing you can do about it. Whether homosexual activity takes place in a shrine or in the privacy of your home it is all perversion. Homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom.
1st Corinthians 6 :9 Tells us explicitly that homosexuals among other sinners will not inherit the Kingdom. Homosexuality is perversion in the Old Testament. Homosexual filth was such an Abomination that homosexuals were put to death.
Romans 1 26:27
You have done nothing but change the truth into a lie and for this cause God gave them (homosexuals)up unto vile affections for even their women did exchange the natural use into that which is against nature.
And likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the women burned in their lust one toward one another. Men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet
Romans 1:26 through 27
to Black dahila:
1. who so you serve and worship? Paul, and not Jesus Christ?
2.Jesus Christ is lord and god not Paul, get your head out of your butt lady.
3.your so screwed up in your head on the Bible, god, and scriptural truth. Where your gettiong this tsuff your stating, you need to get away from them, because their leading tyou to hell!
4.Romans 1: 26 you have done nothing but change the truth for a lie”, fits you to a tee!
No one should give you the time of day with you present state of understanding, your deceiving a lot of people on here, May God have mercy on your soul if you don’t get some legitimate help on your Scriptural understanding. Paul can’t save you, only the blood of Jesus Christ. Paul did not die for your sins, Jesus Did.Your way off the chrts as a loony tone!
JESUS appointed Paul and put HIS WORDS IN PAULS MOUTH….THE LAW IS THE LAW. Don’t try that crazy stuff on me….
◄ 2 Timothy 3:16 ►
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
to Black dahlia:
Jesus did use Paul as one of the early apostles but he in no way put pauls words in authority above His own, to quote your words; “Don’t try that crazy stuff on me”. there has been only one person who had been given complete authority in heaven and Eath, that was Jesus, not Paul. Paul’s words in no way exceeds Jesus authority. abd ok yes Paul was lead of the Hol;y spirit after his conversion, but Paul wasd still addressing bthe ral and main issue “Shrine temple prostitution” that was brought into the early first century church. nO MATTER WHO YOu TRY TO SQAURAL YOUR WAY AROUND THIS, it will not work, your not going to snow ball me with your twist like a snake to snake around the facts here.
Yes your quote in 2 timothy is correct, but you ignore 2 timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. you are ignoring the truth behind sceipture on purpos to justify your errored scriptural understanding, you prove tis over and over with each comment you make. CLEAN YOUR HEAD OUT GIRL!
Using gopds word for teaching means understanding the background which brought it writting into furition as well to correctly understands gods Holy Message, again pau was not, not addressing Homosexuality especially since God’s teaching through His Son never addressed it as Sin, when Jesus taught extensively on sin!
Paul did everything required of him by his LORD AND SAVIOR.
◄ 1 Corinthians 2:2 ►
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
That is all we do here – STUDY THE BIBLE IN ITS CONTEXT – which includes background. WHY THEN DID JESUS SAY
◄ Matthew 19:4 ►
“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
if he meant for there to be SAME SEX PERVERSION?
MARRIAGE AND SEX WERE MEANT FOR MEN AND WOMEN not same sex perversion! Jesus HIMSELF told you so.
◄ Ephesians 5:31 ►
“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”
To black dahlia:
1.
If you truly study the bible in its context, you
comments have shone and proved yourself different especially essentially
claiming Paul to be above Christ in authority, you made it sound as though you
worship Paul and not Christ.
2.
As I said before Jesus Quoted several Old
Testament passage’s TO HELP ESTABLISH HIMSELF AS THE ONE WHO WAS PROPESIED
ABOUT BY THE ANCIENT PROPHETS. It was difficult for people to accept Christ as
the one He claimed to be because His teaching was so radically diferent from the religious leaders
of His day.
3.
Why would Jesus Christ not condemn the
relationship of the centurion and his slave(knowing its nature) if He thought
it to be sinful?
4.
Why would Jesus confirm in his Eunuch teaching that
there were some born that way etc?
5.
I
have absolute no confidence in you or
your scriptural understanding, it is flawed to its foundation.
Why in John did Jesus say “Through him all
things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made”. You cannot ignore
the fact here that gays are part of God’s creation( if you do then you have to
rerfuse believing tht Satan was created by god). God would not create gays them just
to condemn them in the end. Sorry god is not that way,and Sorry your logic does not hold up to biblical
scrut
As expected you sidestep JESUS’ affirmation of male remale sexual relationships because there is no alternative.
The eunuchs of the Bible were usually castrated males or those incapable of reproduction due to a birth defect. A eunuch could also be someone who performed work typical of eunuchs, although he remained perfectly capable of having sex—i.e., “eunuch” in some cases was simply a title. The purpose of intentional castration was to induce impotence and remove sexuality. It was a common practice in ancient times for rulers to castrate some of their servants and/or advisers in order to subdue and pacify them. It was especially common to castrate men who tended the royal harem. Queen Esther’s eunuchs are mentioned in Esther 4:4.
In Matthew 19:12, Jesus mentions eunuchs in the context of whether it is good to marry. He says, “There are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Jesus identifies three types of “eunuchs” here: natural eunuchs (“born that way”), forced eunuchs (“made eunuchs by others”), and voluntary eunuchs (“those who choose”).
Natural eunuchs include those who are born with a physical defect, but they also comprise those who are born with no real desire for marriage or sex. Forced eunuchs are those who have been castrated for whatever reason. Voluntary eunuchs are those who, in order to better serve the Lord in some capacity, choose to forego marriage. God calls some people to remain single (and therefore celibate). Paul speaks of those who serve the Lord in their unmarried state in 1 Corinthians 7:7—9.
All people are a part of God’s creation- even satan. That does not make HOMOSEXUALS who will not inherit the kingdom of God pleasing to God. Mankind is making a choice. All are called but FEW ARE CHOSEN…..
You are hopelessly enslaved to homosexuality I see….dont’ take my word for it….Take the word of an authority on the bible.
John Byron
I am Professor of New Testament at Ashland Theological Seminary. I enjoy teaching and researching a variety of topics in Early Judaism and Christianity.
A recent article on the Huffington Post was brought to my attention by a former Greek student who asked if I would comment on the Greek. In the article Jay Michaelson suggests that Matthew and Luke each record a story in which Jesus heals the same-sex partner of a Roman Centurion. Many will be familiar with the story (Matt 8:5-13; Luke 7:1-10). As Jesus enters Capernaum a Roman Centurion asks Jesus to heal his servant. Jesus gets ready to go with the Centurion, but the man tells Jesus there is no need since he is accustomed to working under authority. Jesus merely needs to give the word and he knows his servant will be healed. Jesus agrees, the man goes home, his servant is healed.
But Michaelson want us to think about the story in a different way by focusing on the Greek term pais used in both Matthew and Luke. He argues that it does not mean “servant” here but “lover” and appeals, though not with any references, to the work of Thucydides, Plutarch and “countless other Greek sources.” He contends that translating pais as “servant” makes no sense since 1) one would not expect a Roman solider to beg on behalf of a slave, 2) although Luke calls the person in question a “slave” (doulos) the centurion calls him pais, 3) it was a common practice for Roman soldiers to have servants/lovers based on the Greek model. Michaelson acknowledges that the person in question was probably a servant, but also much more. He then views this story as Jesus extending an unhesitating, healing hand to a centurion and his homosexual lover just as he did to prostitutes. You can read his whole post here.
Before I comment on Michaelson’s analysis I do want to say that in spite of Jesus’ silence on the topic of homosexuality and whether or not his interpretation is correct here, I do think Jesus would extend a hand to a gay person to heal him. I think Michaelson is 100% correct that given the opportunity Jesus would do that. But I don’t think that is what Jesus is doing here and this is why.
First, Michaelson is not the first to suggest that the person in question here be understood as the Roman Centurion’s homosexual servant rather than just servant, although it is a minority opinion. And he is correct that in some instances pais was used to describe the junior partner in a homosexual relationship. But that is not what it means here nor the rest of the New Testament. The Greek noun pais is used in the New Testament 24 times and has a range of meanings that include “adolescent,” “child” and “servant.” In the LXX (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) it appears numerous times and it always refers to a “servant.” There are no occurrences of the term anywhere in the Bible that can be interpreted a referring to the junior partner in a homosexual relationship. With that in mind, we might be better off translating pais as “servant” here, which Michaelson favors.
Second, Michaelson acknowledges that in Luke’s version of the story the person in question is first called a “slave” in 7:2 (doulos) while the Centurion calls him a pais. He suggests that this distinction is important by which I assume he is suggesting that perhaps Luke got the terminology wrong but the Centurion got it correct. But Luke is writing all of this and would have been aware of the two terms which can in fact be used as synonyms. (See the first chapter in my Slavery Metaphors).
A better explanation for the difference in terminology in Luke might be that Matthew and Luke had a common source that identified the person in question as a pais, which could be taken as either “child” or “servant.” Matthew decided to leave the whole scene ambiguous by not introducing it with an explanation that the centurion had a sick slave (doulos). If you read Matthew’s version substituting “child” for “servant” (with the exception of 8:9 where the word is doulos) the story could just as easily be about the centurion’s son and not his servant (Hagner alludes to this in his commentary, p. 204). Luke, on the other hand, recognized the ambiguity in the story engendered by pais, and decided to clear it up by calling the person in question a “slave” (doulos) because that is who Luke thought he was. Had Luke not made that addition in 7:2 both stories could be read as the healing of the centurion’s “child.”
Third, it is true that pais could be used as a term of endearment for slaves. As bad as slavery was/is there were those cases when a slave and master did become close. But that does not automatically translate into homosexuality. For instance, we have a copy of a letter sent by Augustus to one Stephanos of Laodicea. In the letter Augustus says “you know how fond I am of my Zoilos.” This Zoilos was a former slave of Augustus who apparently became very close with the emperor. But no one is suggesting that the two were lovers in a same-sex relationship. Zoilos was apparently very valuable to Augustus and the emperor developed affection for him.
The problem is that Michaelson has invested too much in the meaning of pais. While it can be used to refer to the junior partner in a homosexual relationship, this would be the only such instance anywhere in the New Testament. As I pointed out, it is a somewhat ambiguous term. Nonetheless, I do think servant here is probably the best interpretation of pais, even though it could be child.
But simply assuming that this term means that the servant was the Centurion’s same-sex partner has no standing. There is not enough evidence. We cannot assume that because the centurion had some affection for the servant that they were, therefore, sexually involved. And we also cannot assume that just because the centurion implores Jesus to heal the servant that he feels anything for the servant. We know nothing about this slave and what role he fulfilled. But if he was a slave that managed the centurion’s house well and was in danger of dying, the centurion might have asked Jesus to heal him so that he didn’t lose his financial investment as well as a good manager. I am not saying this is the case, but this scenario is just as likely if not more so than suggesting that the two were somehow sexually involved. But in the end we don’t have enough evidence to spin either situation and the terminology is too ambiguous.
Michaelson reaches for this story to provide a way for gays and lesbians who are struggling with same-sex marriage as a religious act. I commend him for thinking through this topic and have voiced my own desire that the church actively engage the topic. But I don’t think the story of the centurion’s servant does that for him. It is a story about a servant and a master and we know nothing about how they interacted with one another in the bedroom or out.
We could cite many reasons for the Old Testament being God’s Word, but the strongest argument comes from the Lord Jesus himself. As God in human flesh, Jesus speaks with final authority. And his testimony regarding the Old Testament is loud and clear.
Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).
JOSH MCDOWELL QUOTE
JESUS DID NOT radically teach differently fromt he religious leaders of his day…..HE FULFILLED THEIR TEACHINGS!
◄ Matthew 23:3 ►
JESUS SPEAKING…
So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Sorry for you that you have SOLD YOUR SOUL TO SATAN FOR HOMOSEXUAL PLEASURE….and you are causing others to stumble by selling them a lie.
◄ Hebrews 10:26 ►
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume all adversaries.…
OF COURSE YOU ARE CONVICTED BY THE TEACHING OF JESUS THROUGH HIS APOSTLES- ESPECIALLY PAUL….
Paul was personally chosen and called by Jesus to be an apostle.
Acts 9:15 – Jesus personally appeared to Paul (vv 1-9), then told Ananias to teach and baptize him because Paul was “a chosen vessel” to preach Jesus’ name to Gentiles, etc.
Acts 26:16 – Jesus said that He had appeared to Paul to make him a minister and witness of what he had seen. [Acts 22:14,15]
Romans 1:1; Galatians 1:1 – So, Paul repeatedly affirmed in his letters that he had been “called to be an apostle,” not by men, but by Jesus Christ.
[1 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 1:1]
Other inspired men confirmed Paul’s claim to inspiration.
Note that, if Paul’s claim to be an apostle was not true, he would not even have been a faithful preacher. He would have been a false apostle, a false prophet, a liar, and a hypocrite. But Paul’s claim to be inspired and a faithful teacher was confirmed by many other inspired men.
Acts 9:15 (26:16; 22:14,15) – Luke records that Jesus Himself endorsed Paul as a chosen vessel to preach His name.
2 Peter 3:15,16 – Peter classed Paul’s writings along with other Scripture. This endorses Paul’s writings as truth, including when those epistles claim that Paul was an apostle.
Galatians 2:7-9; Acts 15:22-32 – Other apostles and prophets confirmed Paul’s claim to be inspired and to be a faithful preacher.
Acts 13:1-4 – Luke recorded that the Holy Spirit recognized Paul as one called by the Spirit to preach.
Revelation 2:2 – Jesus commended the church at Ephesus for examining and rejecting men who falsely claimed to be apostles. But Paul had done much preaching at Ephesus, and his letter to the Ephesians had claimed he was an apostle (Ephesians 1:1).
If Paul was not an apostle, the Ephesians surely ought to have rejected him; nor would Jesus have commended them if they had mistakenly accepted Paul as an apostle. So the fact Jesus commended the Ephesians for rejecting false apostles, even when they accepted Paul as an apostle, constitutes conclusive approval from Jesus Himself that Paul was an apostle!
So other inspired writers repeatedly endorse Paul’s claim to be an apostle.
B. Special Qualifications
Apostles had to be eyewitnesses of the resurrected Christ.
Apostles repeatedly affirmed that they were eyewitnesses – Acts 2:32; 10:41; 3:15; 1 John 1:1-4; etc.
Acts 1:15-26 (esp. vv 21,22) – The one chosen to replace Judas had to be an eyewitness.
Paul was an eyewitness of the resurrected Christ.
Acts 22:3-16 (esp. vv 14,15) – Paul saw and heard Jesus so he could be a witness.
Acts 26:16 – Jesus said he appeared to Paul to make him a witness. [Acts 9:1; 1 Corinthians 15:4-8; 9:1-5]
One special duty of apostles was to give testimony of Jesus’ resurrection whereby others could believe. To do this, each one had to have personally witnessed Christ alive after the resurrection. Jesus’ appearance to Paul was exceptional; nevertheless he did see Jesus alive, so he was just as qualified to do this work as were other apostles.
C. Special Powers
The apostles were granted special miraculous powers by the Holy Spirit.
Apostles were empowered by the Spirit to do miraculous signs to confirm that they were inspired by the Spirit.
Other apostles had this power.
Matthew 10:1-4 – Jesus gave the 12 power to perform miracles. [Hebrews 2:3,4]
Mark 16:14,20 – Apostles used miracles as they preached to confirm the word.
The Bible contains many examples showing that the apostles performed such miracles – Acts 3:1-10; 8:14-24; 9:32-41; etc.
Paul was empowered to do miraculous signs.
2 Corinthians 12:12 – He accomplished the signs of an apostle among the Corinthians.
Luke records many signs performed by the Spirit through Paul – Acts 14:8-10; 19:1-7; 20:8-12; 16:16-18; Romans 15:19.
Apostles could lay hands on others and bestow on them the power to do miracles.
Other apostles had this power.
Acts 8:14-21 – Apostles went from Jerusalem to Samaria to lay hands on Christians there and give them the Holy Spirit. Philip, though he could preach the gospel and do miracles, was not an apostle and did not bestow these powers on others (vv 5-13).
Paul could lay hands on others and bestow miraculous powers on them.
Acts 19:6,7 – He laid hands on twelve disciples so the Holy Spirit came on them and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
2 Timothy 1:6 – He gave Timothy a gift through the laying on of his hands. [Rom. 1:11]
2 Corinthians 11:5; 12:11 – For all the reasons we have listed, Paul claimed apostleship fully and equally with the other apostles. [1 Corinthians 9:1-5]
Note that much of the evidence for Paul’s apostleship comes from other men besides Paul. It is clear that his teachings possess as much authority as those of any other apostle.
II. The Source of Apostles’ Teaching
If the apostles taught their own human opinions, then of course their teachings would be inferior to those of Jesus. But what was the source of the teachings the apostles revealed, as compared to the source of Jesus’ teaching?
A. The Source of Jesus’ Teaching
Jesus received His teachings from God.
Hebrews 1:1,2 – Before Jesus came to earth, God spoke through Old Testament prophets, but now God speaks through His Son.
John 12:49,50 – Jesus spoke exactly what the Father commanded to be spoken.
[John 7:16; 8:28; Acts 3:20-23; 10:38; Luke 4:1,14,17-21]
B. The Source of the Apostles’ Teaching
Their teachings were also from God, given them through the Holy Spirit.
John 14:26; 16:13 – Jesus promised the apostles that the Holy Spirit would come and teach them all things, guide them into all truth, and remind them of Jesus’ teachings.
Matthew 10:19,20 – When they taught, they were not teaching from themselves, but the Spirit of the Father spoke through them.
[2 Timothy 3:16,17; Acts 1:5,8; 2:1-4,33; Matthew 28:18-20; 2 Peter 3:2; Revelation 1:1]
So the apostles’ teachings came from the same source as did Jesus’ teaching. All of them spoke the will of God as revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. The apostles’ teaching was as accurate and as authoritative as was Jesus’ teaching. All spoke with the infallible authority of God.
If this is not so, then in fact we do not even really know what Jesus Himself taught, since He never wrote any of the Bible. All we have are records which apostles and prophets wrote of what He said and did. If we accept what they record of Jesus’ teachings, why not accept the other teaching that the Spirit guided them to write?
C. The Source of Paul’s Teaching
What about Paul? Did His teaching come from the same source as did the teaching of Jesus and other apostles?
1 Corinthians 2:10-13,16 – The Holy Spirit revealed the things of God to Paul, so He taught in words the Spirit gave Him, just like the other apostles did. As a result, he knew the mind of Christ. [2:1-5]
1 Corinthians 14:37 – What Paul taught, therefore, were the commands of the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 – The teaching people received from Paul was, in truth, the Word of God, not the word of men.
2 Peter 3:15,16 – The apostle Peter classified Paul’s epistles as “Scripture,” right along with “other scripture.” But “Scripture” is inspired by God and provides to all good works – 2 Timothy 3:16,17. Hence, Peter here confirms Paul’s claim to be an inspired author of God’s word.
The teachings of Paul came from the same source as did those of Jesus and of the other apostles. Therefore, they were equally as authoritative.
[Galatians 1:11,12; Ephesians 3:3-5; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; Romans 1:15,16; 15:15-19; 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Acts 13:12; 16:32; 1 Cor. 11:23; 2 Corinthians 5:20; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 5:27; 4:8]
III. The Importance of Accepting and Obeying Apostles’ Teaching
Many people realize that great blessings come from accepting and obeying Jesus’ teaching, and serious consequences follow from rejecting it. Do the same consequences accompany the apostles’ teaching?
A. The Importance of Accepting and Obeying Jesus’ Teaching
John 14:6 – No one can come to the Father except through Jesus.
John 6:63,68 – His words give eternal life. [Acts 4:12]
John 12:48 – We will be judged by His words at the last day.
Acts 3:20-23 – We must hearken to all things He speaks or be destroyed.
[John 14:15,21-24; 12:50; Matthew 7:24-27; 28:18]
The only way to please God and have eternal life is by believing and obeying Jesus’ teaching. If we reject His teachings, we do so at the peril of destruction. This is true, because His teachings are the will of God. We can please God only by accepting those teachings, and we reject the will of God Himself if we reject His teachings.
B. The Importance of Accepting and Obeying the Apostles’ Teaching
Acts 2:42 – The first disciples “continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine.” The teaching of the apostles was their standard of authority, because it was the word of God.
Luke 10:16 – If we accept the teaching of inspired prophets, we are listening to Jesus (because they taught His will). If we reject them, we reject Jesus and His Father, because Jesus and the Father guided them in what they taught. [This refers in context to the teaching of the 70, but the same would be true of the apostles’ teaching.]
1 John 4:6 – Jesus called and sent the apostles to teach. They taught what God through the Holy Spirit guided them to teach. If we hear what they say, we are of God. Otherwise, we are not.
2 Corinthians 5:18-20 – Apostles and prophets were “ambassadors for Christ.” They carried His message to the world instructing and urging men to be reconciled to God. As when a country sends an ambassador to another country, insulting an officially commissioned ambassador is insulting the one who sent him.
So the consequences that follow from accepting or rejecting the apostles’ teaching are the same consequences as follow from accepting or rejecting Jesus’ teaching, because they are the same teachings from the same source. Hence, we must respect the teachings of the apostles just as we do those of Jesus.
[2 Peter 3:2; James 2:10; Revelation 22:18,19; 2 Timothy 3:16,17]
C. The Importance of Accepting and Obeying Paul’s Teaching
What about Paul’s teaching? Are the same consequences associated with accepting or rejecting his teaching as compared to the teaching of Jesus and other apostles?
Galatians 1:6-12 – The gospel Paul preached came from Jesus, not from man. Therefore, anyone who preaches a different gospel is accursed.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 – Men must hold fast the gospel as preached by Paul, because it is the means by which God calls people to salvation and to the glory Jesus offers. This includes holding fast Paul’s written epistles.
2 Peter 3:15,16 – Paul’s epistles are classified by Peter as “Scripture,” right along with “other scripture.” Those who twist and pervert it, do so to their own destruction. But we have already seen that “Scripture” is inspired by God and provides to all good works – 2 Timothy 3:16,17.
Again, the teachings of Paul carry as much weight as those of other apostles and as those of Jesus, because they are the teachings of Jesus. To reject them is to be lost. We can be saved only if we accept and obey them.
[2 Thessalonians 3:4,6,12,14; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 2:16]
IV. Love and Rebuke Expressed in Apostles’ Teaching
Were the apostles less loving and more condemning in their teachings than Jesus was?
A. Love and Rebuke in Jesus’ Teaching
Jesus taught the importance of love, and that love requires obedience.
Matthew 22:36-40 – Loving God and our fellowman are the greatest two commands.
John 14:15 – If we love Him, we will keep his commands.
[Matthew 7:12; John 13:34,35; 14:21-14]
Jesus plainly rebuked those who rebelled against the truth He taught from God.
John 8:24 – He said those who did not believe in Him would die in sin.
Matthew 22:29 – He said the Sadducees were in error for rejecting the resurrection.
Matthew 23 (esp. vv 14,15,25-28,33) – He plainly rebuked Pharisees for hypocrisy.
[Matthew 7:24-27; 15:1-14; Mark 16:16; 8:33,38; 12:27; John 5:42; 8:24,41-55; Matthew 21:12,13]
B. Love and Rebuke in the Apostles’ Teaching
The apostles also taught the importance of love and that love requires obedience.
1 John 3:14-18 – Some people call John the “apostle of love,” because he showed our need to love like Jesus loved. [4:7-5:2]
1 John 5:3 – But John taught that this is the love of God, that we keep his commands. [2 John 6]
The apostles also plainly rebuked people who rebelled against the truth they taught from God.
Acts 8:20-23 – Peter plainly rebuked a member of the church (Simon) for trying to purchase a power that he had no right to have.
2 John 9-11 – The apostle of love said anyone who would not abide in Jesus’ teaching (which the apostles delivered), did not have God.
[2 Peter 2:1-22; 1 John 2:18-22; 4:6; James 2:10; Revelation 22:18,19]
C. Love and Rebuke in the Teaching of Paul
Did he show less love or more condemnation than did Jesus or the other apostles?
Paul also taught the importance of love and that love requires obedience.
1 Corinthians 13 – The chapter on love was written by Paul.
Galatians 5:6 – But what avails in Christ is faith working through love.
[Ephesians 5:25-33; Romans 8:35-39; 13:8-10]
Paul also plainly rebuked people who rebelled against truth he taught.
Acts 13:6-11 – He called Elymas a son of the Devil and an enemy of righteousness.
Galatians 1:6-9 – Those who preach a different gospel are accursed.
[2 Thessalonians 3:6-14; 1:7-9; Romans 16:17; Galatians 2:4,5,11]
Conclusion
The real lesson to be learned from a study such as this is, not the contrast between the teaching of Jesus and that of the apostles, but rather the harmony that exists. Regardless of what inspired man taught the message, it was consistent with and equally authoritative as other inspired teaching, because it all came from the same source.
The only real question that remains to be answered is whether or not we are willing to submit ourselves to the teaching. We receive the blessings the message offers and avoid the consequences it warns us about, only if we believe the message and obey it
JESUS SPEAKING TO PAUL
◄ Acts 18:9 ►
One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent.
And you NEVER answer any questions about Jesus and HIS condemnation of any sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman. You never answer any questions about Jesus affirming the LAW OF MOSES. You never answer any questions about why GOD CREATED US MALE AND FEMALE….
We do nothing here but study the BACKGROUND AND HISTORY of the bible. Even as we speak we have a team studying the DEAD SEA SCROLLS. Fortunately most of our staff is well written and well versed on the bible. No one is falling for the old “temple prostitution” line. Homosexuality is CONDEMNED IN THE LAW OF MOSES – and the penalty was death because it was so egregious to God. It was and remains an ABOMINATION….
To Black dahlia:
1. I never said the Lord never spoke to Paul, as a
matter of fact I told you of Paula encounter with God on Paul’s road to Damascus
which God spoke to Paul.
2. As to your comment “NEVER
answer any questions about Jesus and HIS condemnation of any sex outside of
marriage between a man and a woman”.
I have told you Jesus being God would have known
the nature of the relationship between the centurion and his slave, yet if He viewed
that relationship sinful as a committed loving relationship, He would have said
so, but instead blessed them using them as an example of faith, and heal the
slaves from his illness.And Jesus would have included it in His extensive teaching on sin, but did not do so!you just don’t want to admit it, because you want to hang on to your being judgmental
3. As to the law of Moses, you only quoted a portion
of the law but you purposely ignored the rest.
4.
Jesu said I have not come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. I told you Jesus
could not do away with the law, if He were to be its fulfillment, the ultimate sacrifice
to pay sins penalty for all humanity, and be our path to salvation. You truly
need to stop cherry picking taking quotes out of Scriptural context to justify
and support your own judgmental attitude
I did answer your question, you just are
not reding them because it is not what you want to here.
5.
Yes God created male and Female, He is also the
creastor of diversity in His creastion. John 1:3 Through him all things were
made; without him nothing was made that has been made. This is something you
seem to want to ignore.
Now as to you other coment “We do nothing
here but study the BACKGROUND AND HISTORY of the bible. Even as we speak we
have a team studying the DEAD SEA SCROLLS. Fortunately most of our staff is
well written and well versed on the bible. No one is falling for the old
“temple prostitution” line. Homosexuality is CONDEMNED IN THE LAW OF
MOSES – and the penalty was death because it was so egregious to God. It was
and remains an ABOMINATION….
6.
I don’t believe none of it, If what you have been
commenting reflects what they say and teach, then you and them are heretics,
heretical form their own foundation. “Shrine temple prostitution Idolatry”were issues in the old testament and new testament
are well known and revealed throughout
history, you people are just ignoring the facts because it does not support your
all’s views and efforts to judge and condemn. God Was very stern on people
judgment and condemnation efforts. He said judge not, least you be judged. In other
words by the same standard you use God His word to judge you shall also be
judged. If you remove opthers from God grace in your judgment, you do the same
with yourself.
7.
Tread carefully in your judgment attitude. I have told
you this before.
8.
You and they are so screwed up in your Biblical
understanding, because your using it not to uncover god’s Holy message BUT TO
SUPORT YOUR OWN JUDGMENTAL ATTITUDS AND COMDENATION EFFORTS ON OTHER PEOPLE YOU
HATE AND DISLIKE BECAUSE YOU CAN’T MAKE
THEM BELIEV AS YOU DO, SO YOU MMIALIGN God the bible to your liking.
9.
I don’t believe a word you or they say. I know
what God has revealed to me in the Bible and in His teaching since college,
that is what I trust, not you or them, you need to get to a legitimate educational
source, one that is godly, and reputable, is reputable recognized, and
respected!
Your excuses for homosexual perversion are laughable. I’ve given you no opinion I have quoted you only theologians and biblical Scholars and the word of God. Your feeble attempts at trying to make the Centurion and his servant slave into homosexuals is laughable.Your feeble attempt to say that Jesus healed only those whose lifestyles and behavior he approved of is laughable. Your attempts to skirt the death penalty decision of God For Those who commit homosexual Abomination is also laughable. You have gone to Great Lengths to try to get around God’s law and his creation of humankind as male and female. We are not made male and female for diversities sake. We are created male and female to complement one another. You know the truth but the truth is not in you. You will receive in yourself the due penalty for your perversion. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is God’s word not my opinion.
You are willfully sinning against God and your own body even after knowing the truth. There’s no more sacrifice to be given for you and unfortunately you are lost to eternal damnation at present.
To Black dahlia:
1. The only one who is laughable is you and your
group, your theologians are probably paid conservative maligners expressly to twist for your conservative principles.
2. As for the Centurion and his save I stated the
trut5h laugh if you will, but truth is truth girl! You have non. I did not say “Jesus healed only
those whose lifestyles and behavior he approved”, that is another lie and twist
you created. I have not twisted nor misrepresent God opr His truth at all, You on
the other hand have bastardized gods truth. Yes we are created male and female
, but God also crested diversity, according to you, and your logic, Black
people, latinos, Hispanics, people of different ethnicities are not created by
god, He is a God diversities in creation. You ignor Joihn 1:3 totally.
3. Yes I know the truth, and have tod you the truth, but you run circles
chasing your own tail to denie the truth.
4. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of
God. This is God’s word not my opinion. No lady that is your opinion, you do not know who God will
condemn through His judgement, and never will. That is Gods sole right to make
that determination not yours nor any other human being.
5. You are willfully sinning against God and your own body even
after knowing the truth. There’s no more sacrifice to be given for you and
unfortunately you are lost to eternal damnation at present.
6. Becaregflul girl you just condemned yourself here.
7. I attended 2 conservative Bible colleges, one in Illinois “Baptist”
and on in Minnesota., both taught the “shrine temple prostitution issue in chruch “history. I suggest you go to a legitimate school and bible college to get yourself straighten
out on the right path.
Nope – no paid anyone. These SERVANTS OF GOD ‘s names are plain for you to see. GOD CONSERVES HIS OWN WORD.
Leviticus 18:22 – Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.
“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion” (Romans 1:26-27)
To black dahila:”
1. Nope I don’t believe you about the people you speak of as you describe them talk of “servants of god.NOT
2. I believe god not you or your teaching on this.
3. Now you quote Leviticus 18:22 in the Holiness code, do you also abide by the holiness dietary laws,
not eating Pork, or eating anything with
a cloven hoof, and abide by the dress
code of not wearing anything mixing with wool
in the fabrics? you want to put everyone back in bondage.
4. You have a reprobate mind set and logic good luck on
living according to the Levitical laws.
5. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is consider “the good News asscripture describes it, to set the
captive free! Learn it live it, breath it! You can stuff the rest of your miss use,
and application of Scripture, By your staunch attitude on this, it sounds as
though you had person issue your dealing with fighting against Homosexual
desires yourself at one time.
As we all know Christians are not now nor have they ever been under the Old Testament law for he Hebrews . As we also know all the moral laws of the Old Testament are included in the 1050 Commandments for Christian in the New Testament- hence the ban on homosexual Abomination still stands.
No Way Around God’s law for you. As always homosexual perversion is grievous to God as it’s always been.
We also know that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom.
To Black dahlia:
OK well, why do keep trying to put gays under it if you
believe were not under its law, and “the law”? I know because you despise and hate them. I
notice you didn’t as usual address my comment about your possible issue
1. Our so hypocritical on all issue we have commented
on.
2. All your doing is excusing your own Scriptural
hypocritical-ness. I really don’t even believe you’re a Christian!
3. Surprise; WHEN WE( those true believers) GET TO
HEAVEN, (IF YOU GET TO HEAVEN) YOUR GOING TO BE SURPRISED AT WHO YOU SEE, AND
PROBABLY SHOCKED AT WHO YOU DON’T SEE!
4. Although you think you know something, You know absolutely
nothing of what you’re talking about,
FAKE!! You’re a wolf in sheep’s clothing!
THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW AGAINST HOMOSEXUALITY IS REAFFIRMED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT……but then you already know this. All of the MORAL LAWS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT including the ban on HOMOSEXUAL ABOMINATION AND PERVERSION are in the NEW TESTAMENT…God has already answered your question my dear – HOMOSEXUALS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM.
Romans 1:26-27
26 For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural. 27 In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion.[a]
SAME IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT – EXCEPT THAT WE ARE NOT ORDERED TO PUT HOMOSEXUALS TO DEATH…..
Lev. 18:22
‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” (NASB)
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” (ESV, NKJV)
Lev. 20:13
“If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.” (NASB)
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” (ESV)
The word “detestable” is the same Hebrew word found in Lev. 18:22, “abomination.”
To Black dahlia:
1.
No, no ,no, your all wrong, the olf testament
law isd not reaffirmed in the new testament with the exception of the mosaic
law, whi we discussed befoe “Jesus say he did not to do away with the law, but
to fulfill it”.
2.
Matthew Henerys comontary: Matthew
Henry Commentary
7:1-6 So long as a man continues under the law as a covenant, and seeks
justification by his own obedience, he continues the slave of sin in some form.
Nothing but the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, can make any sinner free from
the law of sin and death. Believers are delivered from that power of the law,
which condemns for the sins committed by them. And they are delivered from that
power of the law which stirs up and provokes the sin that dwells in them.
Understand this not of the law as a rule, but as a covenant of works. In
profession and privilege, we are under a covenant of grace, and not under a
covenant of works; under the gospel of Christ, not under the law of Moses. The
difference is spoken of under the similitude or figure of being married to a
new husband. The second marriage is to Christ. By death we are freed from
obligation to the law as a covenant, as the wife is from her vows to her
husband. In our believing powerfully and effectually, we are dead to the law,
and have no more to do with it than the dead servant, who is freed from his
master, has to do with his master’s yoke. The day of our believing, is the day
of being united to the Lord Jesus. We enter upon a life of dependence on him,
and duty to him. Good works are from union with Christ; as the fruitfulness of
the vine is the product of its being united to its roots; there is no fruit to
God, till we are united to Christ. The law, and the greatest efforts of one
under the law, still in the flesh, under the power of corrupt principles,
cannot set the heart right with regard to the love of God, overcome worldly
lusts, or give truth and sincerity in the inward parts, or any thing that comes
by the special sanctifying influences of the Holy Spirit. Nothing more than a
formal obedience to the outward letter of any precept, can be performed by us,
without the renewing, new-creating grace of the Lord.
3.
Yes Jesus did answer my question my dear in the
centurian slave incident, and in His teaching on Eubnichs, and in John 1:3 all
of whioch you ignor because you still have a condescending judgment spirit thst
seeks only tht which suprrots your own desire, not gods.
4.
I’m not
going to keep goinmg ovr Roman passages mpr the Livitical passages, we have
already discussed them get off it, get with the program of God’s truth He
revealed through Jesus Christ in His Gospel.
Yes the ban against homosexuality is in the OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW TESTAMENT. It is part of the 1050 commands to christians in the new testament.
ROMANS 1-26-27
For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural.
In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion.
To Black dahlia:
1.
As usual your true to form , being judgmental
udsing zgod and Scripture to do so and justify your lame reasoning.
2.
Your hung up on the sexes, what are you so
afraid of to not admit your wrong, or is that just beyond your capability? You re
werong in your sctriptur application and connecting those verse and scripture
in a way that is wrong and right down evil in mind set and sttitude. Yes your
scripture quotes re correct, I don’t have an issue in the quotes, but where
your wrong is in how you use them, apply them, and harm you do in doing so,God
did not crete Homosexuals just so He could destroy and condemn them. Tis I
stated before, and true to your form you ignore this fact!
3. I’m thanlkful God will be my judge and not you or anyone like you! He will be fair and cut through all the bs you people trollin.
I make no judgments your pronouncement. I have given you the scripture from the God you claim to worship. God himself has stated that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom. God is not a man that he can lie. His word is forever settled. Sorry for you period in both the old and new cabinets God has proclaimed homosexuality to be on the same level as murder bestiality adultery and any other grievous abominable and pervere sin.
I am sorry that you are in bondage to homosexuality and cannot for yourself. Jesus Christ is the only way that you can free yourself from this perverse filth.
To Black Dahlia:
1.
Yes you gave me Scripture in quotes but neither
in correct application nor correct contextual alignment.
2.
God is God of both New and the Old testament, of
the Old covenant and of the New testament, the same today, tomorrow, and forever.
3.
He creted the New testament bringing in the
Gospel of “Jesus Christ” teaching through His son Jesus Christ, WE ARE NOT
UNDER “THE LAW” Jewish law as you have
already admitted to0, clearing yourself from those requirments while holding others to them in one of your previous commandments, In God’s Gospel
through Jesus Christ, He never connected Homosexuality to “Sin”, God is truth
and honesty. To not admit tis is heracy, which you seem to reflect by not
admitting the fact Jesus did not call Homosexuality a sin in any of tHis Gospel books; Matthew Mark, Luke, and John.
You can not put Paul’s any of the epistles above God .no His the gospel
books in authority.,If you do then you’re not a true follower of Jesus Christ,
but of man.
4.
Your trying to turn Gods Gospel into legalism by
convoluting it with the legal issues of the Old testament. WE” who accept Jesus
as our savior are saved by Gods loving ZGrace, not by good works or works ,period
5.
Again you call
it a sin wher God by His gospel through Jesus Christ never did, this
makes you the liar like Satan who comes to steel, roband kill. This make you
the filth, just because you have an attitude that refuses to conform to the
Gospel teaching of Christ. Sorry for you. As I said before, I put my truist in
God through Jesus Christ not you or your buddies and friends teahing or views. Your comments are filled with judgments and pronouncements!
God is not mocked whatever you sew that you shall surely reap. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. You cannot get over under or around God’s laws. Seek God’s laws only. Put away the satanic filth of homosexuality.
To Black dahlia:
1.
I have not mocked God, only spoke truth according
to Hid Gospel He delivered through His Son Jesus Christ..
2.
2.You however are mocking God, “whatever you sew that you shall surely reap”
gays as well as the different races, as well as deformed or handicapped people, hermorpidites( people who were born
with both male and female genitalia) are all part of God’s creation dear, stop
your mocking God.
3.
God’s law is grace under Salvation the Blood of His Sons sacrifice,
You just revealed your legalistic attitude of legalism by saying “Seek God’s
laws only”. No dear you must seek God through His sons sacrifice, God teaches “
no one shall come to the father accept thought His son Jesus Christ. Now you
just told me just how much and badly you are lost. Please abandon your legalistic
persuasion and embrace Jesus Christ teaching in the Gospel books; Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John!
4.
The Satanic filth is this garbage you have been touting on here
about legalism, it will only condemn you,, not save you. Legalism the “law condemns you, accepting the blood of
Jesus Christ saves you, it is the covering just as the blood sacrifice Mosses
did for the Iseralites painted over the doors of the Jewish people at pass over
saved those who put the blood of the sacrifice over their doors .
Sorry for you Dan – God is not mocked you will reap what you sow…
Romans 1 24 For this reason, God delivered them to sexual impurity as they followed the lusts[s] of their hearts and dishonored their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged God’s truth for a lie and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural. 27 In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion.[t]
I gave you the word of God that you want to dismiss. The wages of sin is death. Homosexuality is blatantly sin against God and against your own body. I do hope that you will be able to free yourself from this perversion and make yourself right with God before you die.
My dear You have given no scripture that says homosexuals will inherit the kingdom of God. I have given you a scripture telling you point-blank that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. There isn’t anything you can do about it. Sorry for you. In the Old Testament homosexuals who ordered to be killed for their abomination. In the New Testament we’re not ordered to kill anyone. God is giving you a chance I hope you take it. Unfortunately right now your soul is dead to Christ
To black dahlia:
I did not say there was a scripture saying Homosexuals will inherit
the Kingdom of God, on the same hand you have not given any scriptures of any EXPLICIT TEACHING OF Jesus Christ stating Homosexuals are condemned going to hell. You can’t
because He never said it.
1.again , Jesus blessed an ancient gay love relationship using them ( the centurion and his slave issue) as an example of
faith to all of us and to all the future. There is nothing you can do about this
sorry for you!
2. you are correct “In the New Testament we’re not ordered to kill
anyone” God is giving you a chance I hope you take it to reflect Jesus Christ. Unfortunately right now because of your
judgmental mind set and legalism, now your soul is dead to Christ.
3. No dear I am alive to and in Christ, and He in me, blessed of
Him, have been throughout my life. Sorry, but you cannot take that away from me, nor stand in Gods way of blessing me, no matter what you think of choose to believe.
5.your so heretical on
most levels of your scripture understanding and teaching in how you apply them again you tout your
legalism through the Old Testament, sorry dear but were not under Old testament
covenant but under the New Testament covenant, of Gods loving Grace through His
sons Sacrifice by His blood covering
God created us male and female. Jesus affirms this. Jesus also told you point-blank that for this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh. There’s no such thing as homosexual marriage. Sex belongs in marriage. Yes Jesus just addressed homosexuality along with any other sexual sin.
To black dahlia:
1.
You just keep ignoring the real truth, God is
the creater of diversity, Yes Jesus said” God created us male and female” I and no one is disputing that, but refuse to
admit Jesus “god” also blessed an ancient same-sec couple in the centurion
slave example. Your refusal to admit this does not nullify its reality, God
will be the judge of all according how he chooses, not according to our decisions.
Of what is sin or not. Just because you
refuse to admit God blessed this ancient same-sex relationship, does not mean
Goid does not respect same sex loving relationships.
2.
David and Johnathan potentially was in a same sex relationship,
the words that describe them vertulayy are the same words that often describe a
straight relationship. This is not saying they were gay, but possibly by-sexual
David was extremely distraught upon learning of Johnathon’s death, so much so, that
he threatened the messenger’s life. David actually became a womanizer after
that. Actually of plotting another woman’s husband’s death so he could go after her for his wife.
3.
4. Now how do you explain hermorphidites existence (people born
with both female and male genitalia),re they a creation of God create them or
not?
4.
No Jesus did not address Homosexuality or connect it to Sin nowhere
in His Gospel books, Matthew, Mark, Luke or John!
5.
Your willingness to lie, and distort God, His
word is breath taking.
6.
But I do and will forgive you of your sin, of lying
and bearing faults witness, after all it
is between you and God.
7. You twist my word coniually into something I did not say, I read some of your other responses to mine, and most of them you twisted to something I did not say in my comments.
You keep ignoring the truth. Homosexuality is condemned in the Old and New Testaments by God. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. Nothing you can do about it
To Black dahlia:”
1.No your ignoring the truth
making god conform to your feeble intellect instead of you conforming to gods. Teaching
through His Son Jesus Christ.
The New covenant is not the
entire New Testament; the new covenant is specifically the Gospel of Jesus
Christ by His sacrifice and shedding of His blood for humanity, in Matthew
Mark, Luke and John. Nothing you can do about it!
2.You cannot steal those peoples salvation who have accepted
Jesus Christ by your denying them Christs offering, no matter hoW hard you try
to convince them otherwise. I will Not STAND BY AND LET
let you snow ball them out of their salvation, just to satisfy your lust for judgmental ism
and condemnation the choice is
theirs NOT YOURS.
JESUS HIMSELF CONDEMNED ALL DEVIANT SEXUAL BEHAVIOR OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN- HOMOSEXUAL PERVERSION HAS ALREADY BEEN JUDGED AND CONDEMNED BY GOD.
Gospel of GOD condemns the homosexual lifestyle
As it turns out, yes, JESUS DID CONDEMN THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE. As a matter of fact, He spoke very clearly and directly about the issue. Let me begin with Matthew 19:4. Here Jesus is answering a question from the Pharisees regarding divorce. However, his answer is very telling concerning the entire issue of sexuality, the purpose of sexuality, marriage and the proper form of marriage. Here are the words of Jesus:
“And He answered and said to them, ‘Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning “made them male and female,” and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”?’” (Matthew 19:4)
Here Jesus upholds creation, male and female sexual relationships (in marriage), male and female marriage, procreation as a part of male and female marriage, and the sanctity of male and female marriage and sexual relationships. His answer is a blanket ignoring (thus condemnation as perversion) of anything outside God’s standard for sexuality and marriage. This truth cannot be legitimately explained away.
But, Jesus gets even more direct concerning the issue of homosexuality. In John 5:46-47, Jesus tells his detractors that unless one holds to the writings of Moses (the first five books of the Bible), one cannot fully know or understand truth or Jesus Himself. “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” (John 5:46-47) Of course, in the first five books of the Bible we read of the days of Noah and Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis) and the blanket condemnation of homosexuality as perversion (Leviticus). Oh well, so much for throwing out the Old Testament to legitimize homosexuality. But wait – Jesus gets even more direct with the matter.
Jesus also spoke of the destruction of the Sodomite (openly celebrating homosexuality) cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Luke 17:28-32; Matthew 10:15; 11:24; Mark 6:11.) The presenting sin that brought about the destruction of those cultures was homosexuality. Consider these words found in the book of Jude:
“Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.” (Jude 1:7-8)
Three of the four gospels contain quotes from Jesus about the sinful condition of Sodom and Gomorrah and the destruction that the celebration of the presenting sin of homosexuality wrought upon them. One of those quotes equates the sins of Sodom (homosexuality) to the same type of pervasive perversion of Noah’s day (Luke 17:26-30). So, as it turns out … YES, Jesus did speak rather forthrightly, and often, about the sin of homosexuality and the judgment that it brings upon societies that celebrate it.
But, most important to the issue is the matter of the person of Jesus. Who is He? Well, He claimed to be God with us. The Scriptures claim that He is God with us (Matthew 1:24). Even his enemies knew that Jesus was making this claim (John 10:33). So, if Jesus is “God with us,” then we have to ask, “Does God condemn homosexuality?” The answer is obvious. From Genesis to Revelation, God’s Word, homosexuality is condemned as perversion and a certain sign that God’s judgment is on the way to the culture that openly celebrates it as “normal.”
TO Black dahlia:
1.rue to your form you mis represent what Jesus
said and taught, He being god, knew the nature of the centurion slave relationship,
He did not condemn them or their relationship, but blessed them using them as
an example of faith for all to benefit from!
2. He knew what they were, you keep using Jesus Quotes
out of context of what Jesus was actually
addressing to justify yourself or wrong
belief and scriptural understanding.
3. Jesus never spoke out against same-sex
relationships. He recognized that particular relationship, did not condemn
them.
4. You quoting Sodom and Gomorrah has nothing to do with Homosexuality.
Read Ezekiel 16:49 tells you exactly why those two cities were destroyed, had nothing to do with Homosexuality If you were familiar with biblical history you
would know this, those two cities were known as the cities of the “plains” were
located on the commerce routes of the period. Lot, a man of faith committed to the
original Jewish faith, who respected the Jewish practice of Hospitality, remained
so when the cities stopped its practice in fears of losing its wealth to new
coming strangers and hence forth opened his home to the two strangers “angels”,
It two was a city given over to “shrine temple prostitution Idolatry activity
“The cities became very wealthy and fearful of losing its wealth and prosperity,
so they did away with the hospitality requirements.
5. So as you want to use the gospel quotes on Sodom and Gomorrah
and apply them in correct to your attitude of condemnation, you do so inappropriately
and grievously wrong!
6. Now you use this wrongly quoted and applied! Three
of the four gospels contain quotes from Jesus about the sinful condition of
Sodom and Gomorrah and the destruction that the celebration of the presenting
sin of homosexuality wrought upon them. One of those quotes equates the sins of
Sodom (homosexuality) to the same type of pervasive perversion of Noah’s day
(Luke 17:26-30). So, as it turns out … YES, Jesus did speak rather
forthrightly, and often, about the sin of homosexuality and the judgment that
it brings upon societies that celebrate it.
7. No Jesus did not speak rather
forthrightly, and often, about the sin of homosexuality and the judgment that
it brings upon societies that celebrate it”
8. Yourtotally way off base and purposely deceptive. As I said befor, I will forgive you, because your sin shall be
reveal in do time on besring faults witness of God and His word!
9.Anti-gay Evangelicals admit
the Sodom story is NOT
about homosexuality
10. Dr.
Richard Hayes,of Duke Divinity School,
11.
is a well-known evangelical author. He wrote The Moral Vision Of The New
Testament, in which he defends the anti-gay viewpoint. Yet in spite of the
fact that he regards all gay relationships as sinful, Dr. Hayes admits that:
12. the S@dom story “is actually irrelevant
to the topic.” [of homosexuality].
13. According to Dr. Hayes, the
attempted gang rape in Genesis 19 shows the depravity of the Canaanite people
who lived in the cities of the plain but:
14. “there is nothing in the
passage pertinent to a judgment about the morality of consensual homosexual intercourse.”
15. From Dr. Richard Hayes, in an
article entitled, “Awaiting the Redemption of Our Bodies”.
16.
17. Dr. RobertGagnon, of Pittsburg Theological Seminary
18. prominent anti-gay author, admits the same thing in, The Bible And Homosexual Practice.
19. Although he too believes all gay
relationships are sinful, on page 71 of his book, Dr. Gagnon tells us, The S@dom story in Genesis 19 is usually viewed by modern Christians as the classic
Bible story about homosexuality.
20. “However, to the extent that
the story does not deal directly with consensual homosexual relationships, itis not an “ideal” text to guide contemporary Christian sexual ethics.”
21.
22.
Dr. Mark
Allan Powell, of Trinity Lutheran Seminary,
Columbus, OH,
23.
expresses a similar view. Writing on page 23 of the book, Faithful
Conversation – Christian Perspectives On Homosexuality, Dr. Powell says
concerning the rape stories in Genesis 19 and Judges 19:
24.
“Such stories reflect a mindset
that regards the rape of men by other men as abhorrent, but with regard to
current questions concerning homosexuality, these texts have little to offer.
25.
The stories speak only of the sin of
homosexual rape and say nothing at all about consensual relations between
persons of the same sex.”
26.
Trying to take the GOSPEL and bend it to your homosexual perversion isn’t working Dan. Try something else. Many of us are too well grounded in the word. Every friendship and relationship between two persons of the same sex is not HOMOSEXUAL PERVERSION. I have many girlsfriends that I am not in lusting after them. Why do you think that JESUS PLAINLY STATED GOD CREATED US MALE AND FEMALE. Women were created to complement men.
ROMANS 1 26-27
God’s Wrath against Sin
…26For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28Furthermore, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done.
to Black Dahila:
1.
I am not doing anything as you claim, I am not bending the Gospel by mis applying Scripture, taking it out of its context and hitorical context, you girl are trying to bend God, and Gods word to justify yourself, not being honest about god or His word, your mis representing both. I have given;provided you the correct understanding by well educated people beyond you and any of those to whom you have shared on here, yet you stiull defy the truth.
Good then you know that IN THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT ALL HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY IS CONDEMNED BY GOD.
HOMOSEXUALS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM….Lev. 18:22
‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” (NASB)
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” (ESV, NKJV)
Moral–No Expiration because it is based on God’s character. “You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy,” (Lev. 19:2)
Do not steal or lie (Lev. 19:12)
Do not oppress your neighbor (Lev. 19:13)
No idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
Don’t sacrifice children to Molech (Lev. 20:1-5)
Don’t commit adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 20:9-21)
You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev. 19:18)
The moral law of God is still in effect, and homosexuality is part of the moral law. So, the argument that we are not under the law fails to recognize the divisions of the law: civil, ceremonial, and moral.
to black dahila:
the reference I gave you say no such ting as your garbing on to, they only say Sodom gamorha was not about homosexuality. the real perversions is your mixing Old testament law with New testament Grace. Yes god did give a new commandment Mark12:31″ Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”the last psrt you conveniently leave off for the purpos to malignant annd of disception.
we don’t you give a full quote instead od just a portion? I know why, if you did it correctly you would not be able to excuse yourself for your hypocritical attitude. There is No greater commandment than these. they over tide all other laws that you are bring up. the livitical law has no place here. everything you have quoited from the old testament loses its place in this context, God did not condemn Homosexuality, they livitical law were holiness codes that is all.
ALREADY ASWERED AD NAUSEUM MY DEAR…
Matthew Vines cites no reference to demonstrate that it is “widely conceded by scholars on both sides of this debate that Sodom and Gomorrah do not offer biblical evidence to support the belief that homosexuality is a sin.” Just saying it doesn’t make it so. In contradiction to his assertion, a quick look into commentaries on Genesis 19 provides the following:
The term “sodomy” is derived from this passage. It is widely held that the severity of God’s judgment of Sodom had to do with the prevalence of homosexuality there.1
Sodom and Gomorrah were filled with evilness and sexual perversion: “Then the LORD said [to Abraham], ‘The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know’” (Genesis 18:20–21).2
They wanted homosexual relations with these two who they thought were men. As angels, they apparently were handsome. The men’s vileness was matched, surprisingly, by Lot’s hypocrisy, for he was willing to give them his virgin daughters (19:8). 3
Homosexuality. Every biblical reference to homosexuality indicates it is not an “alternate lifestyle” but gross sin. Lev. 18:22–23 forbids homosexual acts and calls them “detestable.” Rom. 1:24–27 speaks of homosexual desire as “shameful lusts” and calls homosexual acts “indecent,” a “perversion,” and “the degrading of their bodies.” The Christian must take a stand with God’s Word to reject homosexuality as a personal option and boldly identify it as wickedness and sin.4
If, as Mr. Vines states, his position is widely accepted among scholars then let’s see them. Also, why is it that the first four commentaries I checked don’t support his position? Of course, he might object that there are commentaries and scholars who disagree with the quote above, and that I just don’t have them. If that is so, then again, it is all the more reason for Mr. Vines to provide the documentation to back up his assertion. Without it, Mr. Vines’ claim is an empty one. It is only an opinion without basis.
to b;lck dahlia:
1. I never said anyting about idely conceded by scholars on both sides, I only qouted you highly educated people. asd to side of debate, the conservative side probably will never conceded the honest biblical truth because that is beyond their capability to admitt to being wrong or erred. Beside Ezekiel passage i qouted to you stated it clearly, just accept it. I am not familiar with Matthew Vines, but I qouted you from people with dr. degrees and beyond, which I suspect those pepople out measure Mr. Mattyhew vines education.
2. again you put roman and otherr books above the authority of the gospel books, this is a perversion of teaching, all passages you have qouted are related to the shrine temple prostitution Idolatry activity, not homosexuality.
Absolutely if you continue in homosexual perversion there’s no sacrifice left to be given for the forgiveness of your sin of homosexuality.
NEW TESTAMENT SIN- homosexuality…..AN OLD SIN still condemned in the New Testament….The New Testament is a continuing revelation of God’s interaction with humanity. God hated idolatry in the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 5:8), and He still hates it in the New (1 John 5:21). What was immoral in the Old Testament is still immoral in the New.
The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.
CARM – MATT SLICK…
Sodom and Gomorrah was very much about homosexuality and they were destroyed as a result of it.
to Blac k dahila:
OH so now after God told you exactly why He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah in Ezekiel 16:49 you still refuse to accept the truth, I nor anyone can help you dear, you bring your own fate upon you to in essence call God a liar!
Ezekiel 16:49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were
arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. tht is what thw two cities destruction was anout not homosexuality, not even mentioned nor connected too it.
HOMOSEXUALITY AND A HOST OF OTHER SINS……AGAINST GOD AND THEIR OWN BODIES.
HOMOSEXUALITY BY MIKE HALEY
They were haughty and did detestable things before me…” The Hebrew word translated “detestable” refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an “abomination.” Similarly, Jude 7 declares, “…Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.” So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.
Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable. There is probably nothing more inhospitable than homosexual gang rape. But to say God completely destroyed two cities and all their inhabitants for being inhospitable clearly misses the point. While Sodom and Gomorrah were guilty of many other horrendous sins, homosexuality was the reason God poured fiery sulfur on the cities, completely destroying them and all of their inhabitants. To this day, the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were located remains a desolate wasteland. Sodom and Gomorrah serve as a powerful example of how God feels about sin in general, and homosexuality specifically.
to Black dshila:
1. you are correct on tis one part “They were haughty and did detestable things before me”.
2.This included the shrine temple prostitution Idolatry activity; the worshiping of faults Gods which incorporated sexual activity”sex orgies” in their worshiping.
3. these acts included Homosexual and heterosexual acts as well.
4.you can’t just cherry pick on act as being wrong, it was all wrong in Gods eyes, the worshiping activity of faults Gods.
5. Eziekiel 1 does not specify Either homosexuality nor Heterosexuality as the cause. so don’t try to add to Gods reason of destroying the twin cities. Don’t make a claim that God did not make! your adding to Gods word, that is very wrong, God has a very stern warning to those who add or take away from His word or Holy message. stop your sin of dding too.
I am CORRECT on everything because IT IS ALL BIBLICA….Homosexuality is a sin against God and your own body. God will not be moved….GET OVER IT.
To black dahlia:
1.your wrong, you mix and combine Old testament
legalism with the New testament gospel of grace, these are two distinctly
different covenants established by god Himself.
2. I never said what yopu quoted tin the OT was wrong,
just in how you connect them to the new covenant. You abuse god and His word in
doing so by bearing faults witness by your incorrect application of Scripture.
I have said this over and over to you, God through His Son
never condemned Homosexuality nor even directly connected it to sin Now To quote you “God will not be moved….GET OVER IT”.
All of the moral laws of the new testament are found in the old testament. That is why we are called JUDEO-CHRISTIANS. The condemnation of HOMOSEXUAL PERVERSION in found both the old and new testaments. Only the civil and ceremonial laws were distinctly Hebrew. If you were truly a christian you would know these very elementary facts.
To black dahlia:
1. Just because you claim “All of the moral laws of the New Testament are
found in the old testament”. Does not mean or give you any right to put
legalism over and above the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or mix them. You grabbing
at straws again. Only Jesus Christ( the only human being to have ever had been
given complete authority over heaven and earth
2.
Your claim of “All of the moral laws of the new testament are found in the old
testament”. Is not found in the Gospels, Matthew, <ark, Luke and John which is the new covenant god made through his
son Jesus Christ..
3.
Now listen here lady , I am truly a Christian ( bought and paid for by the Blood of
the Lamb, Jesus Christ), but you on the other hand I doubt! Your so messed up
in your head on this, shame on any one responsible for your heresy. May your fate
be upon their heads, I truly am sorry for you, because they have really messed
you up. I don’t give a rates hind end if you think I'm a Christian or not, I prefer
you think I am, but you if don’t think I
am a Christian no skin off my nose, because
you have proven over and over to me Just how Ludicrous you are. I have receive conformation
from the Lord on my understanding in unprecedented ways over the last 5 weeks.
I do have a tremendous testimony to the fact!
4.You need to go back to rudimentary basic’s in Scriptural education of facts. Start
over drinking milk instead of eating Stake1
I don’t CLAIM anything. I showed you the scriptures. Take it or leave it.
JESUS PLAINLY STATED – IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.
Here are the words of Jesus: NO HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE
“And He answered and said to them, ‘Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning “made them male and female,” and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”?’” (Matthew 19:4)
In John 5:46-47, Jesus tells his detractors that unless one holds to the writings of Moses (the first five books of the Bible), one cannot fully know or understand truth or Jesus Himself. “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” (John 5:46-47) Of course, in the first five books of the Bible we read of the days of Noah and Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis) and the blanket condemnation of homosexuality as perversion (Leviticus). Oh well, so much for throwing out the Old Testament to legitimize homosexuality. But wait – Jesus gets even more direct with the matter.
Jesus also spoke of the destruction of the Sodomite (openly celebrating homosexuality) cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Luke 17:28-32; Matthew 10:15; 11:24; Mark 6:11.) The presenting sin that brought about the destruction of those cultures was homosexuality. Consider these words found in the book of Jude:
“Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.” (Jude 1:7-8)
Three of the four gospels contain quotes from Jesus about the sinful condition of Sodom and Gomorrah and the destruction that the celebration of the presenting sin of homosexuality wrought upon them. One of those quotes equates the sins of Sodom (homosexuality) to the same type of pervasive perversion of Noah’s day (Luke 17:26-30). So, as it turns out … YES, Jesus did speak rather forthrightly, and often, about the sin of homosexuality and the judgment that it brings upon societies that celebrate it.
To black dahlia:
You are lying
about what Jesus said “Here are the words of
Jesus: NO HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE
1. He never, never said that’s, give me the scripture
you re you claim Jesus stated that , you
can’t because Jesus did nott say those words “NO HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE”,
2. Now you twist and mis represent John 5:46-47, Jesus
tells his detractors that unless one holds to the writings of Moses (the first
five books of the Bible), Jesus said in reference to those who did not believe
upon Christ, John 5:46 “46 If you
believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me”. Jesus is
talking about himself being referenced to by Moses. Not about adhering to the
teachings of the mosaic Law.
3. Now your just burbling
out words and Scripture to satisfy your own judgment lust of condemnation. You completely
and incorrect connect passages to your liking by cherry picking any Scripture
you can grab on to to justify judging and condemning people.
4. Jesus did make certain references about Sodom and Gomorrah,
but He never used it to condemn gays or homosexuals, that is your take, and a perverted take that is not scriptural supported
By the gospel.
5.
ou know I put my trust
in Jesus Christ teaching in the gospel, not in you or you r condescending attitude.
I am a saved man of God, and trust His Holy spiritys leading, not you or any
you associate with.
6. You will not steel or take away my Joy in the Lord or my
salvation, your meaningless to me now, because you’re the Evil side trying to steel kill and destroy, by mis
representing god, His word and truth.
7. take it or leave it
GOD CREATED THEM MALE AND FEMALE JUST AS JESUS TOLD YOU and it was for a purpose. Jesus did not lie – I gave you HIS WORDS ONLY. He sancfied no other “sexual relationship” outside of a MARRIED MAN AND WOMAN. You are lying to yourself. This means NO SAME SEX MARRIAGE AND NO HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS. You know this and are trying to get around God’s laws. SHAME ON YOU!
To Black dahlia:
1. I never said Jesus lied, now your again lying
about what I said you have lied and twisted.
Your quotes of Jesus where you say He called Homosexuality a sin,
which is a Lie He did not.
2. When he reference the Sodom Gomorrah issue of sin He was referencing
the Ezekiel description and explanation,
which tells us very clearly what the sin was, Homosexuality was not part of
that description, not even mentioned. It reads “’Now this was the sin of your
sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned;
they did not help the poor and needy”. NO where is Homosexuality mentioned!
Jesus was putting focus on the neglect of the needy the “ less fortunate” just
as was happening in His day by the religious leaders of His time,; as people
starved outside the well to do peoples doors not about or on Homosexuality.
3. because your focus is not on Scriptural truth and accuracy,
but on the issue of Homosexuality trying to prove it an sin and condemned by
god; you twist all actual scripture from its true statement, and meaning into
supporting your own condemnation of it,( turning God into what you want which
is ”man’s teaching”, instead of turning yourself to reflect god, again you are bearing faults witness.
4. I don’t deny, nor have I ever denied the Jesus quote of “GOD CREATED THEM MALE
AND FEMALE” I have only said Jesus has referenced many OT passages in His
teaching, but your use of it still does not negate the fact of His teaching on the Centurion
slave issue (God full well knew the nature and content of that relationship, its
sexual involvement etc, yet where He blessed an ancient same-sex relationship,
and His teaching on some of the Eunuch’s being born that way “homosexuals at birth” God would not create
some one that way just for the purpose of destroying them, or sending them to
hell!. He is God and crest-er of
diversity in His creation.you keep ignoring (pushing aside) John 1:3
“through him all things were made; without him nothing was
made that has been made”. Get over it and your constant distortion of God’s
word and meaning, mis application.
5. Then you say “I gave you HIS WORDS ONLY”. NO you gave
only quotes twisted around your own condemnation twisting God and His word to mean
something it does not say or do!
6. as I said multiple times before, I’ll put my trust and faith
in God’s hand not in your teaching or understanding, He is the one who sees
clearly and judges clearly.
Nope I quoted you exactly what Jesus said. He’s told you in no uncertain terms that God created us male and female. He told you in no uncertain terms that he upheld the law of Moses which forbids homosexual encounters. Jesus stated plainly that for this cause a man leaves his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and the two shall be one flesh. Fornication and adultery are sins. Sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is sin. Jesus plainly stated all of these truth and you are in denial. Stop the lying
To black dahlia:
1. No, you quoted Jesus words and went on to
twisted them to match your own demented wishie washy thinking, your making god into your own
image instead of being in Gods image truth is truth, stop you’re lying about
it. You’re promoting “Black dahlia” not God nor His word.
2. You still refuse god’s word on His dealing with
an ancient same-sex relationship. Jesus neve said anything of the sort, that He
forbids Homosexual relations, yes he did say” God created us male and female.
But do not condemn homosexuality, you just twisting and turning like a snake
to pass judgment and condemnation on people you don;y like and probably hate.
3. You use of “Jesus stated plainly that for this cause a man leaves his father and mother
and cleave unto his wife and the two shall be one flesh”. Is just another
example of your using god and His word tyo your own means and end stop using
and abusing God, and Gods word.
4. I do not deny anything nor am I lying about
anything, you on the other hand are doing both.
5.
You wrong, wrong, wrong. In how you use god ,
and apply his words. This makes you the liar or the devils enabler.
JESUS STATED HIS OWN CASE VERY PLAINLY – MARRIAGE AND SEX ARE FOR A MAN MARRIED TO HIS OWN WIFE.
Matthew 19:5
“And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”
to Black dahila:
1. Yes Jesus did speak His case very plainly in the centurion slave issue, and in how He addressed the eunuch issue.
2. Look “black dahila” you have your walk of faith and I have my walk of faith. Lets just leave it at that OK?
Eunuchs do not have sexual intercourse. And no the Centurion was not in a homosexual relationship with his slave. That is your own fantasy. You have no Walk With Jesus right now that is the problem. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom. And you’re causing others to fall.
To black dahlia:
1. Eunuchs do and can have sexual intercourse, if
only castrated, (THERE ARE EUNUCHs WHO
HAVE BEEN Born THAT WAY, WHICH INCLUDES Gays, and eunuchs who were made that
way by man,and those who choose op not marry);gosh lady you are astounding in your display of your ignorance, not being disrespectful, just flabbergasted at our statements.
2. The centurion and his slave were homosexuals in
a same-sex relationship, just because you refuse to admit it and deny truth does not make it not true, the proof is there through word
research studies and the history of those
words application.
3. You liar, I do have a walk with Jesus, a rightous one and probably a
better one, and a closer one than you
that is what the problem is, your lost in your own dementia of reality.
4. You’re the one causing others to fail by bearing faults
witness. Just because you say” Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom” does
not make it so, Scripture does not say that, only your twisting of Scripture to
your own condescending judgmental attitude. You try to make God fit your image
instead of you reflect Gods image! you
reflect the persona of Satan!
5.
You need to quite your lying, and the bashing of
people for something you personally hate and despise! It wouldn’t surprise me
if You probably are fighting this so
hard because you probably at one time had leanings toward homosexuality at one
point in your life.
Being a eunuch means that you do not have sexual intercourse whether you are castrated or not and the Bible says nothing about the Centurion and his slaves being in a homosexual relationship. These are just figments of your very black hearted imagination.
To Black dahila:
1. you know nothing; it is apparent by your
continual denial of facts. I roman times Eunuchs were homosexuals who had no interest in the opposite
sex, people who were castrated by man, or born unable to sexually perform, and lastly those who simply
choose to be unmarried for the sake of the Kingdom.
2.The Bible does not explicitly state the centurion and
slave were homosexual. Slaves in roman times were used for menial tasks considered beneath the dignity of a roman and up to including for sexual pleasures,
and gratification. When roman soldiers went to battle they took their slaves
and used them for sexual pleasure and gratification once the solder came off
the battle field. Again this is were word studies and research come in.
The Roman Emperor Augustus (FOUNDER OF THE ROMAN Empire), instituted a ban on
heterosexual marriage for serving Roman army soldiers, before the birth of Christ. The Roman marriage ban lasted
until around AD 197-325. This ban may
have sparked same sex relationships in the first century AD Roman Army.
This is the time frame, and back drop God choose for His Son to be born into.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the center ethics of Christianity, not sexuality
ethics.
Jesus Christ
would have known of and witnessed homosexuality. Homosexuality was fairly common while He was alive. Yet, Jesus was completely silent on same-sex
relationships. He, the pure and sinless
one, never even connected homosexuality to sin (while He taught extensively on
issues of Sin). In fact, Jesus potentially
blessed an ancient gay relationship as an example of faith. In Matthew 8:5-13 & Luke 7:2-10,
the “Roman Centurion and his slave.” According;
to well-known biblical scholar, and authority on Greek culture, and their
Language. Sir Kenneth Dover writes; about
600-1000 years before the writing of, Matthew, the term “Paiddika”
was used. Paiddika (a diminutive of Pais);
is a literal reference to the junior partner in a homosexual relationship. The use of the Greek word “Pais” referencing
to “slave” would have been understood by people of that day in reference to a same-sex
relationship. The Roman use of Slaves
was very multiple in nature, from menial task, beast of burden, and for sexual
pleasure and gratification. The roman army, when coming off the battle field
many times would use them for sexual pleasure/gratification. Typically common
live stock were of more value to than a slave in roman times, yet to this
centurion this slave was of particular value to the centurion.
2. Your comment “These are just figments of your very black
hearted imagination” appropriately describes yourself and attitude of denial! your denial is your wishful thinking! By the way I do not have a black heart,
only you and those of who continually denie truth based on both scriptural and
historical facts. You problem not mine, but your being deceptive to everyone
else on here.
3. Its astounding just how uneducated and ignorant you show ,make yourself out to be1
Eunuchs do not have sex. Eunuchs are either castrated or do not have sex by choice. Homosexuals try to judge other people by their own homosexual feelings and it isn’t working. Homosexuals are not eunuchs because they have sex in same-sex relationships which are against God’s laws.
to black dahila:
1. your way off base here and sow us your a loony tune.
No it is n ot the homosexuals you claim “Homosexuals try to judge other people by their own homosexual feelings”. its the heterosexuals doing the judging based on their heterosexual feeling. thst is your problem in understanding the issues surrounding them.
2. again you focus on Law, not Gods Gospel of Jesus Christ, there is a distnct difference between His Gospel and “law, the legalism you purport!
The word of God is not off base. HOMOSEXUAL ABOMINATION AND PERVERSION IS CONDEMNED IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS.
1 CORINTHIANS 6:9 HOMOSEUXALS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD
A eunuch is a male who has been castrated, that is, had the testes removed. Eunuchs were often used as guards of harems. In Acts 8:27, a eunuch was “a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure.” Biblically, some people are born Eunuchs, and others are made Eunuchs (Matt. 19:12). They were forbidden to enter into sacred duty (Deut. 23:1).
◄ Matthew 19:12 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others–and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” (NO SEX INVOLVED IN THEIR LIVES)
Sorry you are DEFYING God’s ban on homosexual sin. The facts will not change to please you – ever. In both the old and new testament it is stated FOR THIS CAUSE (MARRIAGE) A MAN LEAVES HIS MOTHER AND FATHER AND CLEAVES UNTO HIS WIFE. There is no room for homosexual perversion in God’s WORDING OF HIS LAW. Even in the purity of the Gospel you ascribe filth between people that doesn’t exist. SHAME ON YOU APOSTLE OF SATAN.
to black dahila:
1. I don’t defy god on anything, you on the other hand defy Gods truth by twisting it to what you want, and others to think and believe
2. the fact is God did not ben homosexuality in the New testament, you ignor the fcacxt Jesus blessed an ancient same-sex relationship the “centurian and his slave”.
3. you keep quoting “A MAN LEAVES HIS MOTHER AND FATHER AND CLEAVES UNTO HIS WIFE. Yes Jesus did say that, but He still never condmend homosexuality nor a same-sex relationship.
4. you turn “God’s WORDING OF HIS LAW.” into something god did not condemn.
5. even you have called something “filth” in the centurion slave issue which God did not do or call “filth”. Now to quote you “SHAME ON YOU APOSTLE OF SATAN”.
6. I am a follower of Jesus Christ and His teaching, what happened to you?
GOD HAS BANNED HOMOSEXUALITY IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS……I AM THE LORD THEY GOD I CHANGE NOT! –direct quote from the God you say you worship. ALL OF THE MORAL LAWS (not civil and ceremonial) ARE FOUND IN THE NEW TESTAMENT WITHIN THE 1050 COMMANDS FOR CHRISTIANS AND THE 67 SINS NAMED (ONE AGAINST HOMOSEXUALITY) You are obviously in bondage to homosexual perversion and abomination
Leviticus 18:22: ” Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” 3. Leviticus 20:13: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
NEW TESTAMENT BAN ON HOMOSEXUAL PERVERSION (HOMOSEXUALS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM)
Romans 1:26-27: “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”(PERVERSION)
11. 1 Corinthian 6:9: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate (HOMOSEXUALS), nor abusers of themselves with mankind.”
by Matt Slick
“For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it,” (Matthew 19:12).
This verse cannot be used to support the idea of people being born as homosexuals because of how the term eunuch is used in its three instances, as well as its overall context. First of all, Jesus is speaking about marriage and divorce, Matthew 19:3-10, not about homosexuality. Remember, marriage was a social expectation in the Jewish culture. Therefore, we must look at this in the context of biblical marriage which would necessitate a denial of homosexuality.
Consider also that the word “eunuch” is used three times in the verse, which suggests three kinds of men who are given to not marry. The first two usages were already familiar to the disciples. Jesus mentions those who are eunuchs from birth; that is, they were either incapable of marriage (i.e., physical deformity which prohibited having children) or have no desire to marry. The second is speaking of physical castration. Such eunuchs were often used in guarding harems. The third is the new category: those who choose to be single “for the kingdom of God.” In both cases there is not even a suggestion that people are born with homosexual orientation. If anything, the implication is to not be involved in marriage and sexual activity – which would negate homosexuality as an option.
Furthermore, consider what Paul says elsewhere.
“The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again lest Satan tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 But this I say by way of concession, not of command. 7 Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that, 8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn. 10 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11 (but if she does leave, let her remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not send his wife away.” (1 Cor. 7:4-11).
The context is also about marriage. In verse 6 Paul was speaking of married couples and prayer. In verse 8 he speaks of unmarried widows. Verses 9-10 are again about marriage. Notice verse seven. Paul speaks of his “gift from God,” the gift of his celibacy so that he might serve the Lord. This parallels what Jesus said in Matt. 19:12 about being a eunuch “for the kingdom of God.” Furthermore, Paul is saying that being single and serving God, and being married and serving God, are gifts. If someone is dedicated to God in his singleness or even as eunuch from birth, then it is a gift from God for the service of God and cannot refer to “homosexual orientation”.
to Black dahila:
1. Homosexuals are born that way, not made that way so there for because they have no interest in the opposite sex, they do not procreate as heterosexuals do.So there for they were considered Munich who were completely intact sexually and posed no threats to the roman emperors palace as understated people did.
2. your so warped up in legalism, its pathetic, and sad, because you know noting about the Grace of God through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. you only talk of legalism, law, and condemnation. you reflect only the bondage, and oppression it creates not the grace of God.
We are all born into sin – it doesn’t mean that we should give into sin and wallow in the gutter in it. Jesus gave us the POWER OVER SIN. You have the truth and REFUSE TO OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. Sex and marriage belong to a man and women within the bounds of HOLY MATRIMONY – NOT TO HOMOSEXUALS or unmarried people. None of your filthy excuses will work on judgment day. HOMOSEXUALS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM….GOD is not a man that HE can lie.
John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.”
To Black dahlia:
1. Yes you are correct we are all born into sin.
2. Godthrough His son never connected Homosexuality to sin as evident in His teaching
on the centurion same-sex relationship,
using them as an example of faith.
3. Besides there is no commandment that say thou
shalt not be gay or homosexual. There is however a commandment that says “thou
shalt not bear faults witness” this would be against who created us to be and
or against god or anyone.
4. Yes Iagree” You have the truth” I do have the truth, and I’m
standing on it against you by obeying God My heavenly Father, and Jesus
teaching. NONE OF YOUR FILTHY EXCUSES using god or His Holy word To JUSTIFY YOUR
JUDGMENTAL ATTITUDE Will WORK for you. AS FOR JUDGMENT DAY YOU HAD BETTER HEED
YOUR OWN STATEMENT, AN D WARNING! God never gave man the right to judge or
condemn, in doing so it is the same as killing according to Gods high standards.
5. God never said Homosexuals WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM. Your right GOD is not a man that
HE can lie. So I highly suggest you stop your twisting God and His word to your
liking to justify your wrong scriptural understanding.
6. John
14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who
loves Me will be l oved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to
him.”
7. Yes I do strive to honor God in every way, but you distort for your own pride preventing you from admitting your error in
understanding.
8. I know you do not agree, that’s ok, I don’t live
to serve you or another human being, only my God through Jesus Christ, I suggest
you do the same. right now your only serving yourself and those who are in the
same echo chamber of yours.
No I am not correct – GOD IS CORRECT AND STATED AS MUCH. This same GOD also condemned homosexual abomination and perversity in both the OLD AND NEW COVENANTS.
◄ Hebrews 10:26 ►
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left
NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THAT THE CENTURION WAS IN A HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS SLAVE. You own lies condemn you.
To black dahlia:
1. I was only stating your correct about your quote
not about in how you were applying that quote.
2. And no God through, His Sons teaching in the gospel did not state homosexuality
was wrong or sinful. He blessed an ancient same sex relationship in the centurion
slave issue. If Jesus thought it to be a sin while He was fully aware of its
existence, He would have said so and
taught that when He taught on “sin”.
3. He never condemned Homosexuality in the “New testament”,
your just twisting Scripture to satisfy your own choice of beliefs, not Gods.
4. if we deliberately keep on sinning
after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left you have condemned yourself by twisting Scripture to say something it
does not say.
In your last
statement “NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY
THAT THE CENTURION WAS IN A HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS SLAVE. You own
lies condemn”. you. I gave you
the Scripture about the centurion slave and the relation word used during that
period, its direct meaning and application, Peddika is a diminutive of the
Greek word “Pais” used in the Greek translation which includes the meaning of Slave. So I have
not lied but gave you truth in relation to Scripture and historical usage, which you deny because it does not fit in your
mantra of being judgmental and condemnation, you want control of everyone else’s, well you’re
not in control, I will oppose you sat every chance when I see your
un-scriptural. Your wrong, wrong, wrong,
on just about every issue we have
conversed about.
Lastly you say” If we deliberately
keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice
for sins is left”. You need to apply this to your self because you are the
mater of lying here.
Jesus “healed” many sinners. No where does anything indicate HOMOSEXUAL PERVERSION HERE. Of course you see homosexual perversion everywhere…..the bible stated as much…◄ Titus 1:15
To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
1. The Greek word here translated, “servant,” is παῖς (pais), and can indeed be translated as a male child. There are several other instances in the New Testament of is being used in this way, including Matthew 17:18, “Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment.” But in other places, it is clearly delineating a master-servant relationship rather than father-son, such as Luke 12:45, “But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’…” The Centurion himself defines the relationship by talking about, and giving examples of, giving orders that he expects to be followed.
2. The Greek word translated “highly valued,” is ἔντιμος (entimos). Many translations use the word “love” here, appropriately. But nowhere in the New Testament is this word wrapped in any kind of sexual connotation. This is the love of one who knows their servant is working hard and showing respect to the master. Had Luke intended to imply sexual love, he would have used “eros” instead.
3. The local leaders of the synagogue pleaded with Jesus on behalf of the Centurion. Orthodox Jews would not have accepted aid in building a synagogue from someone whose lifestyle was so inconsistent with the Torah’s prohibitions on homosexual behavior. For the locals to be so soundly recommending this Gentile, representing a repressive empire, for Jesus’ assistance, he must have been a “God-fearer,” one who accepted the Torah’s teachings and practices regarding worship, diet and relationships.
4. Jesus is consistent in his use of the word, “faith,” that he does not merely mean an intellectual assent to facts, but a transformed life where that faith impacts one’s behavior. James emphasizes this point in his epistle. When Jesus says that he has “not found such faith even in Israel,” that complement would not have been bestowed upon someone resolute in remaining in a sinful sexual relationship.
5. Jesus made a habit of hanging around with sinners, befriending them. This drove his opponents nuts. But befriending sinners should not be interpreted as accepting of their lifestyle. So even if this had been a gay Centurion, Jesus’ silence should not be interpreted as endorsement of homosexuality. Jesus was not promoting adultery when he saved a woman caught in the act from stoning. Jesus was not endorsing extortionist tax collection policies when he called Matthew to be his disciple. He was not endorsing drunkenness when he attended a wedding where wine was being served. He was not endorsing theft when he forgave the thief on the cross. Jesus befriends sinners, but he calls them to a transformed life.
For these reasons, the Gay Centurion Heresy should be rejected by Christian believers. We are living in a time of HOMOSEXUAL HERESY.
God is correct about all of his Commandments. Jesus plainly stated if you love me you will keep my commandments. The functionality is forbidden in both the Old and New Testaments. All of the moral laws of the Old Testament are in the New Testament that you are ignoring.
Jesus it the GREAT I AM of the old and new testaments. HE condemned homosexuality in both the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS.
If you really are a christian you would recognize this verse of scripture “BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS I AM” JESUS IS SPEAKING. God told MOSES THAT HE WAS “I AM”.
Never say HE did not condemn HOMOSEXUALY ABOMINATION AND PERVERSION.
Satan and his demon army are lying to you Dan. The demon’s of lust,
do not care if its same sex, multiple partners, critters, children or shoes.
Only that you are in REBELLION to the Creator.
You can twist scripture to your satisfaction all you want. But you are only lying to yourself. Remember who first twisted God’s Word.
to ter ber:
1. not on your hole post, your the one being lied to by your right conservative wing religious people.
2. I am not in rebellion to the creator, you and those who think like you are.
3. I have not twisted scripture nut you and those like you do, I only stassted truth concerning scripture and history
4. Now tae your own advice of concern ” Remember who first twisted God’s Word”.don’t fall pray to lying to yourself!.
God has plainly stated HIMSELF that homosexuality is an abomination
Leviticus 18:22 – Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination. Romans 1 26-27 For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural. In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion.
NO HOMOSEUXUAL PERVERSION BETWEEN THE CENTURION AND HIS SLAVE – you own degrading filth interjected in the PURITY OF GOD’S SCRIPTURE…..
The Greek-English Lexicon of Liddell and Scott registers three meanings of the word παῖς (pais): a child in relation to descent (son or daughter); a child in relation to age (boy or girl); a slave or servant (male or female). In her detailed study of the episode in Matthew and Luke, Wendy Cotter dismisses as very unlikely the idea that the use of the Greek word “pais” indicated a sexual relationship between the centurion and the young slave.[46] Neill himself compares the meanings of Greek “pais” to those of French “garçon”, which “most commonly means ‘boy'” even though it can also be used to mean “waiter”.
Matthew’s account has parallels in Luke 7:1–10 and John 4:46–53. There are major differences between John’s account and those of the two synoptic writers, but such differences exist also between the two synoptic accounts, with next to nothing of the details in Luke 7:2–6 being present also in Matthew.[47] The Commentary of Craig A. Evans states that the word pais used by Matthew may be that used in the hypothetical source known as Q used by both Matthew and Luke and, since it can mean either son or slave, it became doulos (slave) in Luke and huios (son) in John.[47] Writers who admit John 4:46–53 as a parallel passage generally interpret Matthew’s pais as “child” or “boy”, while those who exclude it see it as meaning “servant” or “slave”.[48]
To Black dahlia:
1. yup your true to form convoluting the legalism
of the OT with the New covenant God made through His son Jesus Christ where
God did not condemn Homosexuality.
2. You keep
wanting to conform to legalism, do you wear mixed fabrics made of woll? Eat pork or anything of a
cloven hoof? The last time I asked you; you
conveniently excused yourself of those laws, while holding others to them. Being
quite Hypocritical isn’t it?
Now you’re next
denial! “NO HOMOSEUXUAL
PERVERSION BETWEEN THE CENTURION AND HIS SLAVE – you own degrading filth
interjected in the PURITY OF GOD’S SCRIPTURE”.
Yes the use
of the Greek word Pais has the implication of
a same sex relationship! Historical usage of the term and of Peddika
proe it its legitimacy and accuracy. Paddika is a direct reference to the Jr.
partner in a same-sex relationship. I am not injecting as you claim “degrading filth interjected in the PURITY OF
GOD’S SCRIPTURE”. I am only ststing truth as to History nd proven through the
Biblical account description usage of Pais. Can help you if you disagree your
choice, but I know the historical truth of the usage as it is used Biblically. And
dear God never condemned it while he extensively taught on Sin in His new
covenant with mankind! You the one degrading filth by your twisting of
Scripture to reflect a view that is not accurate..
Commentaries that are viewed as more creditable, one of wich
is “Matthew Henry: commentary. The word
that is used to describe the servant in Matthew is “pais” (mostly
because it produces a nice play on words with the Greek word for paralysis). At
the time, pais, a term of endearment, could mean one of five things: son or boy;”
·
a “special servant” who lorded over other servants and cared
for his master’s children
·
a particular type of servant — one who was “his master’s male
lover.”
·
an endearing term for the junior partner in a homosexual relationship
· an attractive young
male
Luke, instead of “pais” uses the term “entimos doulos”
which means “honored slave.” A “entimos doulos” would be a
common way of describing a slave of who had an especially close relationship
with his master.
Looking at these two terms, we can exclude all but two potential definitions:
either this was a slave that was given special treatment by his master (the
head slave who managed a household taking care of his masters servants and
children could be referred to as “pais” and “entimos
doulos”) or a slave who was in a romantic or sexual relationship with his
master.
conservative voices often make demands
on these verses that cannot be backed up by the data.
Most conservatives theologians stop here and argue that because the man is
praised by Jesus the relationship must not be sexual in nature and choose
instead the “head slave master” argument. Their argument, however,
reveals less about Jesus than own preconceived viewpoints. Once one looks at
Roman law and culture, their argument deflates.
Roman
Culture and Paterfamilias
First and foremost, the argument deflates the audience for both the live action
and the written stories would have assumed that the head of any Roman household
would be likely to be treating his slave as sexual property.
In Roman culture, the eldest male of a household had complete authority over
everything that belonged to him including wives, children, and slaves (who were
all regarded as property). Through much of Roman history, a patriarch’s power
of his children, grandchildren, women, and slaves was all inclusive. Until late
in the Roman Empire, patriarchs even had the right to main or kill their slaves
on a whim, and even after laws to protect slaves were enacted, they were
largely ignored. At no point in Roman history, were laws enacted to prevent the
rape, sodomy, or sexual exploitation of a patriarch’s human property; such
actions were always within the legal authority of a family’s patriarch.
Centurions
and Sexuality
Again both Jesus’ audience and later the early Roman and Jewish audience to
whom the gospels were first received, would have known far more than we do
about what it meant to be a centurion in the Roman army.
The current debate over whether homosexuals serving in the United States Army
is a historical irregularity and should strike any historian as a rather
humorous departure from historically normative beliefs on the topic. In the
ancient world, homosexual armies were the modus operandi. The elite fighting
forces of the Greeks, Romans, Spartans, Cretans, and Boeoitians, were all based
upon homosexual relations. Rome continued this tradition and military
homosexuality was encouraged as a means to improve troop morale, bravery, and
overall fighting.
In what appears to be 13 B.C. (but could be a year or two in either direction),
Augustus banned certain ranks of soldiers, including centurions, from marrying
to further promote homosexual armies. This ban lasted until 197 A.D, so during
the years that Jesus lived and the gospel writers wrote, a centurion was
generally childless, single, and engaging in military homosexuality.
Furthermore, a centurion did not have the rights to have regular forms of
slaves while he was away at war, save one exception: a soldier did have the
right to bring a chosen, trusted, physically fit male slave with them as long
as they had a plan to free him so that he could join the Roman army (only free
men could serve in the Roman army). This would allow the centurion to have
sexual release while away at war, for the slave to train in the art of war with
a more senior soldier, and — most importantly to the Roman generals — for a
bond to form that could not be broken.
This bond was the overarching goal of encouraging homosexual relations in the
military. 400 years before Christ, the Roman had begun advocating that their
armies be composed of purely homosexual males. One such battalion, the 300
members of the Sacred Band of Thebes, was lauded by the military captain
Pelopidas (via the historian Plutrach) as being “a band cemented by friendship
grounded upon love is never to be broken, and invincible; since the lovers,
ashamed to be base in sight of their beloved, and the beloved before their
lovers, willingly rush into danger for the relief of one another.” and a
monument was built in their honor.
The preference for homosexual armies was so strong that it is, in fact, the
very reason we celebrate Valentines Day. Sometime during the reign of Claudius
II (267 – 270) a draft was issued and thus marriage was outlawed for all young
men, and a certain priest, named Valentine, refused to comply and continued
marring young couples. He was executed and we now celebrate Valentines Day to
commemorate both his martyrdom and his commitment to love and marriage.
This, of course, negates the one of the last two potential definitions for how
the gospels describe their relationship. Knowing that a centurion was forbidden
to marry, was not allowed to have children or regular slaves, and was
encouraged to have a special slave as a homosexual lover give us great clarity
as to their relationship.
Liberals tend to get off the train here. They often uses this passage to
declare that Jesus condones homosexuality because he heals this man and
compliments his faith, but like the conservatives, their viewpoint is built on
almost no data. Again, their argument reveals less about Jesus than than their
own viewpoints; this exchange may be heavily based upon a homosexual union, but
this passage does not deal with what we would call “a willing union.”
It does not deal with Homosexuality, but rather underage, homosexual, sex
slavery.
Roman
Culture and Pederasty
A few more pieces of information will give one pause as simply declaring
“homosexual” as the best descriptor for the centurion and pais’ relationship.
In the Roman world, age diverse homosexual relations were considered a mark of
social status for both the younger and older lovers within the Roman world.
Many politicians and other affluent and influential Romans often kept young
slave boys as lovers. Much romantic poetry written by older men to children as
young as five last to this day from the Roman world around Jesus’ time.
Below is an image of a Roman coin celebrating this sort of relationship with a
younger pais. Yes, you heard that right, pederasty was so common in Roman
culture, they literally put it on the money.
Nope ALL OF THE MORAL LAWS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT ARE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT….The Old Testament Law
Ceremonial Law: This type of law relates to Israel’s worship. (Lev 1:1-13) The laws pointed forward to Jesus Christ and were no longer necessary after Jesus’ death and resurrection. Though we are no longer bound to them, the principles behind the ceremonial laws, that is to worship and love God, still apply.
Civil Law: This law dictated Israel’s daily living (Deut 24:10-11); but modern society and culture are so radically different that some of these guidelines cannot be followed specifically. The principles behind the commands are used to guide our conduct
.
***MORAL LAW : The moral laws are direct commands of God. A good example are the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17). The moral laws reveal the nature and will of God, and still apply to us today. We do not obey this moral law as a way to obtain salvation, but to live in ways pleasing to God.
Moral–No Expiration because it is based on God’s character. “You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy,” (Lev. 19:2)
Do not steal or lie (Lev. 19:12)
Do not oppress your neighbor (Lev. 19:13)
No idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
Don’t sacrifice children to Molech (Lev. 20:1-5)
Don’t commit adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 20:9-21)
You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev. 19:18)
The moral law of God is still in effect, and homosexuality is part of the moral law. So, the argument that we are not under the law fails to recognize the divisions of the law: civil, ceremonial, and moral.
To black dahlia:
as usual you ignore most of hat i have posted, and do not address the information i gave you,instead you just get on here and ramble on with mere nonsense!
1.
Look I did not say anything about the “moral law”,
only that God through His son in his
Gospel did not say or connect
homosexuality as being immoral, so stop you rambling on about stuff trying to connect homosexuality to something God
did not say or connect it too.
2.
Now you need to adhere to tht which your
requiring others too; Do not oppress your neighbor (Lev. 19:13)
No idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13).
3.
I have repeatedly told you one of the main and recurring issues
in the OT going into the NT. Was the hrfine temple prostitution Idolatry ting,
you just proved my point” No idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)”.
4.
NO HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT
PRT OF THAT LAW God did not connect it too it. Agaun you are just dragging yourself
into heresy in your comments.
I quoted you the SCRIPTURES AND THE THEOLOGIANS AND BIBLICAL SCHOLARS….to you the WORD OF GOD IS NONSENSE.
DO NOT BE DECEIVED- Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. … will (5) inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6 HOMOSEXUALS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD – THAT IS NOT NONSENSE AND GOD IS NOT RAMBLING ON….GOD IS DECLARING HIS COMMANDMENTS….
John 14:15-31King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
To black dahlia:
1. Again and again you misquote me to malign me according to
your evil satanic wishes. I never said or implied Gods word was nonsense, only you
and your Evil attempts to change the meaning of God’s word to something He did
not say or mean.
This quote of yours however is true “DO NOT BE DECEIVED-
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers” nor thieves nor the
greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of
God.
2.
Again I never said God was “rambling, only you were rambling as
usual! Again you twist and lie to malign for our own personal purposes. SHAME
ON YOU. I NOW KNOW WHY YOU CHOOSE THE SCREEN NAME “Black dahlia” there was an
real black dahlia figure in history, some say she was a spy as I am told by some , who lied bore faults
witness,bearing faults witness which is exactly what you do. No one should take
you seriously showing any degree of truth or accuracy in interpretation and
understanding of Scripture
3.
Now as to John 14:15-31King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. You know tis, yet you keep bearing
faults witness by twisting god’s word into something He did not say or mean!
4. again Corinthians passage you quote is not about homosexuality, the term Homosexual did not exist in bible times The issue is the shrine temple prostitution Idolatry sactivity, which you have in some form eluded to. The sexual activity wasd a perversion of worship worshiping faults gods.
I MISQUOTE NOTHING AND IGNORE NOTHING. I am here in the MIDST of bible translators, biblical theologians and biblical scholars. THEY ARE OF ONE ACCORD WITH THE WORD OF GOD.
HOMOSEXUALS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM. 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9 This is RIGHT much in line with the MORAL LAW quoted in Moses that HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR IS AN ABOMINATION. You cannot change the word of God because you are enslaved to homosexual perversion and abomination. GOD HELP YOU SIR….
To black dahlia:
1. Ya right, like I’m going to believe you and you other nut
cases NOT!
2.
Your statement; I MISQUOTE NOTHING AND
IGNORE NOTHING. I am here in the MIDST of bible translators, biblical
theologians and biblical scholars. THEY ARE OF ONE ACCORD WITH THE WORD OF GOD.
I Doubt this VERY MUCH, THEY’RE
OF TRANSLATORS AND BIBLICAL THEOLOGIANS, you PROBABLY GOT THEM OUT OF A “CRACKER
JSCKS” BOX IF YOU’RE truly A REFLECTION OF THEIR TEACHING.
AGAIN AND AGAIN I TOLD YOU THE TERM “Homosexual is a modern
term it did not exist in bible times, the issue in Corinth being delt with was
the shrine temple prostitution idolatry activity, not Homosexuality. If you can’t
offer a more substantial; comment, at least spare us the continual parroting repeating quotes
you haphazardly mis aply I am enslaved
to noting, you cannot pass judgment and condemnation on others, using God or His word without condemning
yourself!When you or if you gret to heaven yo may vry well see people who were
gat and Homosexual and other folks you currently believ aate lost, you also
going to be shocked t who you don’t see!
Moses in the mosaic law does not condemn Homosexuality, but
certain sinful activity which homosexuality is not mentioned accept in your own
condescending mind and attitude.
DON’T BELIEVE ME- GOD IS NOT A NUTCASE AND HIS WORD IS NOT NUTS…
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
New Living Translation
Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
English Standard Version
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
Berean Study Bible
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts,
Berean Literal Bible
Or do you not know that the unrighteous ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
New American Standard Bible
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
King James Bible
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality,
International Standard Version
You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don’t you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,
NET Bible
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals,
New Heart English Bible
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor men who have sexual relations with men,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Or do you not know that evil men do not inherit The Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; no fornicators, neither worshipers of idols, neither adulterers, neither sexual molesters, neither males lying down with males,
GOD’S WORD® Translation
Don’t you know that wicked people won’t inherit the kingdom of God? Stop deceiving yourselves! People who continue to commit sexual sins, who worship false gods, those who commit adultery, homosexuals,
New American Standard 1977
Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
Jubilee Bible 2000
Know ye not that the unjust shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor effeminate nor homosexuals
King James 2000 Bible
Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
American King James Version
Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
American Standard Version
Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
Darby Bible Translation
Do ye not know that unrighteous [persons] shall not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men,
English Revised Version
Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
Webster’s Bible Translation
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Weymouth New Testament
Do you not know that unrighteous men will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Cherish no delusion here. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor any who are guilty of unnatural crime,
World English Bible
Or don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,
Young’s Literal Translation
have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,
To black dahila:
Again and again you lie a dog ( just clarify this, I am not
calling you a “dog”), you twist malign , lie and out right bacterized Gods
word.
2.I never said God was a notecase, He is NOT, but I did said you were, quite your lying about and
twisting what I say. I want everyone on here to know what kind of a person “black
dahlia” is, she is a liar, conniving woman, who will think nothing about twisting
yours and ones words to her like for the
expressed purpose of maligning someone
when she knows she is losing the argument, this kind of activity is so normal
and typical of conservative’s, and of republican people.
3. Now as to
your quotes; New International
Version
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not
be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men
who have sex with men
New
Living Translation
Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God?
Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols,
or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
You
conveniently change to other translations to support your condescending
judgmental holier than thou attitude. You truly must have a low opinion of
yourself to stoop to such activity at the expense of others, when you know you’re
losing the argument.
4.
the New international version has been around for some time and accepted as a
transilation, how convenient you quote it yet purposely omit the quoted reference.
The
New Living translation is not considered an accepted translation, it is more
like the “Living Bible’ Paraphrased It
tries to speak in normal understanding of our English way of communicating. Hensforthj
“paraphrased. Paraphrased is never accepted as a legitimate true translation because
it is not a true transilation; The challenge for the translators was to
create a text that would make the same impact in the life of modern
readers that the original text had for the original readers. In the New Living
Translation, this is accomplished by translating entire thoughts (rather
than just words) into natural, everyday English. The end result is a
translation that is easy to read and understand and that accurately
communicates the meaning of the original text. To tis end proves it is not a
ligimate trnsilation being it attmpts to convey thoughts( which are interpreted
by people, not from original language text) rather than focusing on accuracy in
translating from original text. And again “black dahlia” Purposely omits the text
reference.
5. although this phrase “Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who
worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, would be correct
and arccuate, but Homosexuality is not mentioned in the original translations of
the Bible, the term did not exist in Bible times, the issue being addressed
here is the “shrine temple prostitution Idolatry” activity of that time and
period of the Bible, and in all translations and versions of. Not Homosexuality.
God is not a man that he cannot lie. I have given you his quotes. You can’t win against God. God is not twisting his own word. He’s giving it to you straight. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. He have told you this straight out.
to black dahila:”
Oh get real, I never aid god was twisting His word, only that your twis ting Gods words to mean something He was not saying or addressing, you the liar here, not god.
God is always real and HIS WORD STANDS FOREVER. Homosexuals BY THE WORD OF GOD will not inherit the kingdom
to black dahila:
1. I never said god nor His word was not real.
Yes it stands for ever. your, Your babbling again about something I never said.
2. by the word of god through His son “Jesus Christ” , he never condemned homosexuality nor the same-sex coup;l in Matthew and Luke.
GOD STATE IN HIS WORD….
Matthew 19:4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
Matthew 19:5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?
Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible:
To black dahi;a:
1. Yes I am aware of the passage, but Jesus often
quoted ot passages to solidify himself as the Son of god, in His efforts to
yeach truth that the religious leaders of his time fought against Him and His
growing popularity.
2. Even through He quoted o.t. passages, He still
never taught against Homosexuality, nor against the same-sex relationships of whom
He blessed one “centurian and his slave”using
them as example of faith.
Your
stastement “GOD STATE IN HIS WORD….
‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35) He also indicated
that it was indestructible: is accurate. He also said judge not, lest you be judged. You don’t use god nor His word to judge others Judgment is strictly the responsibility of God not mans.
3. He still did not condemn homosexuality, but
blessed an ancient same-sex relationship.
4.
Actually He never condemned anyone , but
ADMONISHED THEM TO BELIVE UPON GOD AND TURN FROM Sin which He never connected
homosexuality or gays too while he taught
extensively on Sin.
Jesus stated exactly what he meant. Marriage is between a man and a woman and sex outside of marriage is sin.
to black dahila:
1. ok i for the most part agree, but His silence on the homosexual issue, and on His blessing a same-sex love relationship speaks just as loud and means just as much as ell.
2. Jesus taught ot only by words action,and example, but by His silence as well.
There is no Silence about sex from Jesus. All sex outside of marriage between a man and woman was and is condemned by Jesus. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one. There is no other circumstance under which any other sexuse activity is blessed by God. Everything else is a strong delusion that has been sent to you by Satan. Sorry for you.
LOL- JESUS NEVER BLESS HOMOSEXUALS RELATIONSHIPS – EVER….
The word “homosexual” didn’t appear in English Bibles until 1946
by Matt Slick
The homosexual community has raised the argument that the word homosexual never occurred in the Bible until 1946, thereby trying to demonstrate that homosexuality is not wrong; that instead, Christians have translated the Bible to make it suit their needs. Consider this quote from a pro-homosexual website.
“The word “homosexual” did not appear in any translation of the Christian Bible until 1946. There are words in Greek for same-sex sexual activities, yet they never appear in the original text of the New Testament.” (http://www.pflagupstatesc.org/statistics.htm)
But, we have to acknowledge that you don’t translate a word from Hebrew and Greek into the English if there is no English equivalent. So, using the term “homosexual” in the English Bible could not have occurred until after the word had entered the English vocabulary.
So, when did the term “homosexual” enter the English vocabulary?
“In English the word homosexual was first used in 1892 in the English translation of Krafft-Ebing’s “Psychopathia sexualis” which was a reference work, in German, on sexual perversions. It first appeared in 1886 and was enormously popular, being reprinted about once a year!”(http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_year_did_homosexual_become_a_word)
“homosexual (adj.) 1892, in C.G. Chaddock’s translation of Krafft-Ebing’s “Psychopathia Sexualis,” from Ger. homosexual, homosexuale (by 1880, in Gustav Jäger), from homo-, comb. form of Gk. homos “same” (see homo- (1)) + Latin-based sexual. “Homosexual” is a barbarously hybrid word, and I claim no responsibility for it. It is, however, convenient, and now widely used. “Homogenic” has been suggested as a substitute. [H. Havelock Ellis, “Studies in Psychology,” 1897] Sexual inversion (1883) was an earlier clinical term for it in English. The noun is recorded by 1895. In technical use, either male or female; but in non-technical use almost always male. Slang shortened form homo first attested 1929.” (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=homosexuality&searchmode=none)
Okay, so that explains when the word entered our vocabulary. Since 1892 it would take some time, in a less technologically advanced society than today, for the word to be disseminated throughout the population and appear in various forms of literature. That would explain why the English term “homosexual” did not appear in the Bible until 1946. But, does the Bible teach against the concept of homosexuality? For that, let’s take a look at the English translations that use the term, and then we will examine the original language.
What does the Bible Say?
The places where the English word “homosexual” occurs in the Bible are found in two verses:
1 Cor. 6:9, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.” (NASB, ESV, NIV, )
1 Tim. 1:10, “realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.” (NASB, ESV)
In Each case, the Greek word used for ‘homosexual’ is ἀρσενοκοίτης, arsenokoites. Here is what it means according to Greek dictionaries:
ἀρσενοκοίτης arsenokoítēs; gen. arsenokoítou, masc. noun, from ársēn (730), a male, and koítē (2845), a bed. A man who lies in bed with another male, a homosexual (1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Tim. 1:10 [cf. Lev. 18:22; Rom. 1:27]). Zodhiates, S. (2000). The complete word study dictionary : New Testament (electronic ed.). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.
88.280 ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου m: a male partner in homosexual intercourse–‘homosexual.’ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι . . . οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται . . . βασιλείαν θεοῦ κληρονομήσουσιν ‘don’t you know that . . . no adulterers or homosexuals . . . will receive the kingdom of God’ 1 Cor 6:9–10. It is possible that ἀρσενοκοίτης in certain contexts refers to the active male partner in homosexual intercourse in contrast with μαλακόςb, the passive male partner (88.281). Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.). New York: United Bible Societies.
ἀρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoitēs), ου (ou), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ Str 733–LN 88.280 male homosexual, one who takes the active male role in homosexual intercourse (1Co 6:9), specifically interpreted as male homosexual paedophilia (nab footnote); possibly a more generic term in first Timothy; sodomites (rsv, nrsv, nkjv), perverts (niv, neb, reb), practicing homosexuals (nab), homosexual (njb), (1Ti 1:10+), note: translations possibly use certain specific terms to infer or allow certain theologies. Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ an adult male who practices sexual intercourse with another adult male or a boy homosexual, sodomite, pederast Friberg, T., Friberg, B., & Miller, N. F. (2000). Vol. 4: Analytical lexicon of the Greek New Testament. Baker’s Greek New Testament library. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.
There is no silence on homosexuality in both the Old and New Testaments. God said exactly what he meant when he said no same-sex relationships in both Leviticus and in Romans. You are free to pretend to believe your iwn lies if you wish but you will responsible on Judgement Day for your lies. Your daddy Satan cannot help you.
“What does the New Testament say about homosexuality?”
Answer: The Bible is consistent through both Old and New Testaments in confirming that homosexuality is sin (Genesis 19:1–13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26–27; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Jude 1:7). In this matter, the New Testament reinforces what the Old Testament had declared since the Law was given to Moses (Leviticus 20:13). The difference between the Old and New Testaments is that the New Testament offers hope and restoration to those caught up in the sin of homosexuality through the redeeming power of Jesus. It is the same hope that is offered to anyone who chooses to accept it (John 1:12; 3:16–18).
God’s standards of holiness did not change with the coming of Jesus, because God does not change (Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8). The New Testament is a continuing revelation of God’s interaction with humanity. God hated idolatry in the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 5:8), and He still hates it in the New (1 John 5:21). What was immoral in the Old Testament is still immoral in the New.
The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.
GOD’S WORD IS FOREVER SETTLED IN HEAVEN…..not gonna change….
1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
LOL – Jesus did condemn ALL SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN. He did not condemn BESTIALITY – do you practice it?
BELIEVE GOD’S WORD ONLY….
Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.
Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.
Rom 1:26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
Rom 1:27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
1 Cor 6:9,10 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Tim 1:10 the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, 5 kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,
Jude 7 Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
DOUAY RHEIMS – CATHOLIC TRANSLATION
Romans 1:26-27
26 For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. 27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts, one towards another: men with men, working that which is filthy and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
Romans 1:24
24 Wherefore, God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness: to dishonour their own bodies among themselves.
I’ve given you the direct quotes from The Bible both Old Testament and New Testament. The Old Testament condemns those engaged in same-sex activities to death. The New Testament condemns those engaged in same-sex activities to not be able to inherit the kingdom of God. You have all of the verses as everyone else does and you can’t change them. God is not a man that he can lie. You may call it homosexuality you may call it an abomination you may call it perversion you may call them gay you may call them same-gender you may call it or the participants in sexual perversion anything that you want to call it or them but anything outside of sex in a marriage between a man and woman is outside of God’s law. Trying to go around it under or over it won’t work you are condemned to death. You will not inherit the Kingdom.
To black dahlia:
1. Ok, yada, yada, yada, yada; yes you gave me quotes,
but none of them condemn Homosexuality.
2. It is you using God and His word to condemn something God did not do, you are placing yourself as the trial, judge and juror, condemning
where god has not done so neither in the o.t. or the N. t.
3. Your twisting God and his word to your own ends and faults interpretation.
4. I change
nothing, but you on the other hand are doing what your accusing me of by your condemnation attitude usurping a responsibility reserved only to God.
5. The rest of your comment is not worth my time to
address because it is just you being waist full in your continual repetitiveness.
6. I am a saved man of God through His son’s blood,
paid and bought for. You cannot steel that from me by your lies and the twisting of god’s word to mean something He did not say or teach.
7. No matter how much you try to remove me from the
Grace of god through His sons sacrifice, you will not be able to do so, you by
your own attitude are lost and you alone have condemned yourself by that
attitude!
I haven’t twisted anything. I don’t have to.I’ve quoted you exactly what was said in the Bible. You are the one with calling God a liar not me. Have a nice eternity….
to black dahila:
1.you soute scrripture then twist it to something other than what was being delt with, you have done this consistently.
2. when you quote scripture and then give an alternative meaning( that is different than what they were addressing) that is twisting
3. I have never called God liar, you r fault sly accusing me now you are such a liar, I hope your proud of yourself lady!, I truly feel sorry for you to be of such low esteem, that you have to lie about everything to make yourself feel important, your pride gets in your way and will be your demise in the end!
4. I will have a nice eternity in heaven with my Lord “Jesus Chrit”!, I truly hope you will make it there.
I quote scripture and scripture speaks for itself. God has condemned homosexual-same-sex abomination and perversion in both the Old and New Testaments. There’s no way to get around it. Sorry for you…. you sold your soul to satan.
To black dahlia:
Ok yes you quoted
scripture, but correct interpretation of scripture also requires a correct understanding
.and a working knowledge of cultural issues of the time in which it was written
to understand what it is appropriately being addressed. Something you obviously
and seriously lack.
2. God did not condemn Homosexuality; or same sex love
relationships in neither the OT. Or. The
N.T. sorry you can’t make Scripture mean today what it did not mean in Bible
times when written, sorry for your perverse
understanding of God and Scripture, you
have sold yourself down the river to Satan who lies twist God and his word for
his own purposes, “to lie, cheat, steel, and kill!.
3 your own judgmental and condescending attitude condemns you
according to Gods teaching through His son Jesus Christ. You attitude is no
different than the religious leaders of Jesus Christ day, where He specifivally
cals the “ oh generation of vipers and hypocrites”.
4. Your just digging yourself a deeper hole, a grave “black dahlia”.
Now your starting to cover yourself up with your own dirt!.
5. you can’t steel from me my salvation in the lord, nor my joy in that salvation no matter how much you try.
Our standard can only be what God says. In Romans 1 we read,
God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion (Rom 1:26-27).
The Mosaic Law is what we are most concerned about in relation to the New Testament believer. This consisted of 365 negative commands and 248 positive for a total of 613 commands. These may also be divided into three parts or sections (see below)—the moral, the social, and the ceremonial. As such, it covered every possible area of the life of Israel. It should be stressed that the moral principles embodied in the Mosaic Law given at Sinai were merely the codified expression of the eternal moral law of God as it was given to Israel to govern her life as a nation in order to experience God’s blessing under the Abrahamic covenant.
TEN COMMANDMENTS STILL IN EFFECT AND ALL REAFFIRMED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. The prohibition against same sex abomination is also REAFFIRMED in the New Testament.
Lev. 18:22
‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” (NASB)
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” (ESV, NKJV)
Clearly, the Old Testament condemns homosexuality. What else does it mean when it says “you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female”? The term “lie with” here refers to sexual intercourse in the phrase “lie with a male as one lies with a female.” It is an abomination. The word here is תֹּועֵבָה towʿebah, toʿebah.
117 occurrences; AV translates as “abomination” 113 times, “abominable thing” twice, and “abominable” twice. 1 a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable. 1a in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages). 1b in ethical sense (of wickedness etc. ).1
Lev. 20:13
“If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.” (NASB)
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” (ESV)
The word “detestable” is the same Hebrew word found in Lev. 18:22, “abomination.”
There can be no doubt that the Old Testament condemns homosexuality as a detestable act worthy of death.
Romans 1:26-27 NIV
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
PERVERSION AND DETESTABLE.
To black dahlia:
1. You keep trying to put people under the “law of
the O.T. this is heresy( you should obey the ot dietary laws, and their dress code),and women being silent do you do that?, we are under the new covenant of grace God made through His son. Homosexuality was not condemned by Jesus Christ, but blessed
the ancient same-sex relationship in the centurion and slave example. The
same-sex coup;e were not condemned but lifted up as an example of faith. This
speaks volumes about same-sex couples in how God treated them. You seem to ignore
Jesus statement that “He had been given complete authority in heaven and on
earth”. This is because Jesus was god in the flesh who dwelt among us. His
usage of the love relationship based on love, same-sex couple does in fact justify
same-sex couples.
2.
You sated it clearly “we
are most concerned about”, this is your manufactured concern not Gods.
3.
Yes there is not a true accepted
consensus on the exact definition od “abomination” other than being considered
un-Godly, this does not imply Homosexuality in any way, shape or form.
4.
Most of your comment is noting but repetitive
jargon again because you keep capitulating to legalism. Just to clarify, I called
your comment jargon, not God nor his word!
Lastly romans, Paul is addressing the “shrine
temple prostitution Idolatry issue was so prevalent in roman and in Corinth, Paul was
not addressing homosexuality. God did not
address homosexuality asa “PERVERSION
AND DETESTABLE”. This is strictly you making that connection, God did not condemn it or them or make that
connection, you do. But certain un-godly shrine temple prostitution activity.
5.
Again I trust God and His righteous judgment not
yours or mans. Only he will be fair, honest without prejudices. By faith we are justified, not condemned. The
key word here “justified”.
You want to judge your neighbors hard, when you need to look
into your own back yard!
NEW TESTAMENT….REAFFIRMATION OF THE OT MORAL LAW….same as the ten commandments which are stil in affect today. They are all STATED PLAINLY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT – READ IT!
NEW TESTAMENT COMMAND – SAME AS OLD TESTAMENT COMMAND…GOD is not gonna change to please you
Romans 1:26-27
26 This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
To black dahila:
1.I never claim God changed any laws, but He did change His
covenant from, the ot to the new convent through Jesus Christ. The two
covenants are completely different. They are Based on two very fundamentally different basic principles.
2. I never said God changed the ten commandments, but since
you keep bringing them up; there is no commandment thst says ”thou shalt not be
gay or homosexual, but there is a commandment, that says thou shalt not bear faults
witness. Your continual touting the law “legalism’ over the new covenant of
grace through His son Jesus Christ, and espousing an attitude of hate condemnation
towards gays is bearing faults witness
and is heresy.
3. NO God will not change to please anyone, and certainly
not for you.
4. Romans 1:26-27
26
This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women
exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men,
giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another,
men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons
the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
Again
and Again you refuse to acknowledge the true Scriptural message and meaning that
this was about the “”shrine temple prostitution
Idolatry activity”, where sexual
activity was incorporated in the worship of faults Gods “Idolatry”. You are besring faults witness by your
ignoring the true meaning behind this scripture, this makes you a “deceiver”
the worst kind, it people like you that push people away from gods saving grace
and salvation. You will in the end bear the consequences of your actions you
placed upon others..
Sex in both the Old and New Testaments are defined as being for a man and a woman. There is nothing said about same-sex in the Old Testament or new testament except to call it abomination and perversion. Yes this is condemnation. This is spiritual death and in the Old Testament it was also physical death. We’ve all read it you’ve read it you are in denial.
Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God Corinthians chapter 6 verse 9. It doesn’t get any more playing than this. You are in denial and lying to yourself and trying to lie to God which is not possible.
To black dahila
;
1. Ok now we might be getting some where you
say same ex is condemned, yet if there were not same-sex activity in both the OT and NT periods, then there
is nothing to be condemned in the same-sex arenas. Same-sex was not condemned
in either testament’s, your the one making that connection and assertion,
not the bible nor god.
2. The term abomination has a vague meaning
there is no true agreed on definition as to its fgll encompassing meaning, other
than something thsat qualities that god considers wrong, which He through His son did not
consider same-sax love relationships wrong as evident in His using the
same-sex issue concerning the centurion slave example as an example of
faith.
3. I am not in denial, you asr for not
embracing the truth about the example god used in the same-sex example of
the centurion slave example.
4. Anyone who capitulates to the Lord through
his son Jesus Christ is not committing spiritual death but embraces Spiritual
life! Through God.
5. The one lying and in denial here is you; Corinthians issue is about
the “Shrine temple prostitution Idolatry activity that was so pervasive in both
Corinth and in rome during tht time, not about homosexuality.
6. I have given you both Scriptural and
historical truth and fact, yet you denie is truth and facts thst is bearing
faults witness against god, His word in how He has responded to acts of
history concerni8ng god.
7. I do not lie to God but you are doing it
all the time by denying His facts and truth for the sake of your own prideful
errors.
8. we prey on no one, only put the truth and facts out there, sorry you re unable to see this with out maligning it and us.the condosending judgmental hateful ttitude of yours is as Evil as Satan himself
ABOMINATION that is so repulsive that the participants are put to death – NO PLAINER THAN THAT!
Clearly, the Old Testament condemns homosexuality. What else does it mean when it says “you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female”? The term “lie with” here refers to sexual intercourse in the phrase “lie with a male as one lies with a female.” It is an abomination. The word here is תֹּועֵבָה towʿebah, toʿebah.
117 occurrences; AV translates as “abomination” 113 times, “abominable thing” twice, and “abominable” twice. 1 a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable. 1a in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages). 1b in ethical sense (of wickedness etc. ).
To black dahlia:
1.As to abomination; What you made
plan ,and clear is: your opinion, not an accepted consensus of definition or
meaning!
2. clearly you keep espousing your
lies , “your flawed scriptural understanding using god, His word to purported
your own biases, hate, and prejudices.
3.as to “What
else does it mean when it says “you shall not lie with a male as one lies
with a female”? This description is
specifically addressing the “shrine temple prostitution Idolatry activity incorporating
sexual activity that existed during that period, regardless of homosexuality or heterosexual
activity, (both were being done in the Idolatry worship activity,. It is not a
specific condemnation of Homosexuality. If that were the case you would have to
also condemn heterosexual activity, because both were being done.
4.you further examination;” 117 occurrences; AV
translates as “abomination” 113 times, “abominable thing”
twice, and “abominable” twice. 1 a disgusting thing, abomination,
abominable. 1a in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marr, is just that
describing the shrine temple prostitution idolatry activity, God finds
detestable period, not Homosexuality.
5. any other understanding you make it out to be is just that, your opinion,
and take on scripture which is seriously errored and flawed.
When God calls you perverse and repulsive and an abomination and orders the death of people that participate in same sex sexual relations there is no doubt exactly as to what he means. You are nothing but a liar and the truth is not in you.
To black dahlia:
1.God has not called us perverse, only you have,
you obviously do not believe in Jesus
Christ as God, He never called us perverse or even connected us to sin, you do.
2. The liar and deceiver here is you lady, the
truth is in fact in me as a follower of God through His Son Jesus Christ. I have shown you Gods love and patience, What happened
to you, You have shown and proven yourself to be a heathen Satan follower who twist and uses god, His word against what
He taught and meant.
3. My prayer
for you; May you truly become a follower of Jesus Christ to embody His
teaching, not that of a heathen. May your attitude reflect His love and Grace to
all humanity. May you put your prejudices and hate aside, put the
responsibility of judgment in God’s capable hands through that of his son.You
have no right to judge or usurp Gods tight to do so.
If God had intended homosexual behavior to be a viable sexual alternative for some people, He would not have condemned it as an abomination (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13). It is never mentioned in Scripture in anything but negative terms, and nowhere does the Bible even hint at approving or giving instruction for homosexual relationships.
To black dahlia:
1. You don’t know what God had or had not intended,
you’re not God so quite speaking, and through words implying as if you are, you
know Gods precise intentions!
2. God Did in John 1 1-3 state “All things were
made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made ”. Which means
God created Gays and Homosexuality as well? Reasons only known to God Himself.
He did not; nor would He create people in this fashion just for the soul
purpose to condemn them in the end or long run, that is not how God operates.
3. God through Jesus Christ did acknowledge
same-sex relationships by using an ancient same-sex committed love relationship
a love relationship as an example of faith the “centurion and his slave”. You just
refuse to admit the truth dear, because it does not fit into your conservative mantra,
but that does mean the fact is not true or Scriptural., and then He taught on
the issue of eunuch’s being born that way ( eunuchs who were fully intact and
sexually functional “ gays who had no interest in the opposite sex), and those
who were made eunuch’s by man or choose not to marry for the sake of the
kingdom.
4. You keep mixing legalism with the Gospel of Gods
new covenant of Grace through Jesus Christ.
5. We are not saved by works or “good works, but by
faith through the grace of God through His sons shedding of His blood,period.
YOU ARE A LIAR…..GOD MAKES KNOWN HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS WILL.
John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
To black dahlia:
1. I did not say God did not make known His
commandments, only your twist on them is not accurate.
2. John 15:15 Yes that is correct, so why do you
not accept the fact of His blessing an ancient same-sex relationship, His teachings
on eunuchs, and not connecting Homosexuality and a loving same-sex relationship
to sin while He extensively taught on sin? This quote, that you very much
convicted , exposed your own error of yourself “black dashila”.
3.
You continually expose yourself as the “Liar”. Not
me, I gave you précises accurate facts in Scripture and in biblical history,
yet you deny, deny, and double down in denial.
GOD has made his commandments against homosexual abomination and perversity known in both the old and new testament. YOU ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE…There are plenty of loving relationships without sexual perversion. I love my mother but I don’t want to have sex with her and GOD does not want me to either. YOU ARE ONE SICK AND PERVERSE INDIVIDUAL.
Leviticus 18:22: ” Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” 3. Leviticus 20:13: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
Romans chapter one makes it clear that homosexuality is still detestable to God: “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion” (Romans 1:26-27). Notice that these verses equate homosexuality with “shameful lusts”, “unnatural [relations]”, “indecent acts”, and “perversion”.
To black dahia:
1.No the only one making commandments against Homosexuality
Is you, your twisting god, his word to your liking and tjhat is the perversion
here.” YOU ARE WITHOUT
EXCUSE”, and “YOU ARE ONE SICK AND PERVERSE INDIVIDUAL” t a tee, you’re a Satan’s
side kick; Satan knows scripture, and twist it uses it to his liking asd your
doing.
.
2. you still can’t get over the legalistic issue,, by your
condemning others according to legalism “law” you all so condemn yourdelf!
3. romans 1 is not about homosexuality, it is clearly about
the
“shrine temple prostitution Idolatry activity was so pervasive in both Rome, and Corinth. Both sexual acts
homosexuality, and heterosexuality were being done in the Idolatry prostitution
activity.
4. I am a blessed man of God who follows the teaching of
Jesus Christ “god” in the flesh. What happened to you? Oh I forget your Satan’s
side kick.
GOD HIMSELF CALLED HOMOSEXUALITY AN ABOMINATION and ordered all participants to be put to death. HIS COMMAND IS ALSO IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. You cannot change the WORD OF GOD to suit your perversion.
Leviticus 18:22: ” Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” 3. Leviticus 20:13: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them
Romans 1 26-27: 26 This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
To black dahlia:
1.
God did no such thing, God was addressing the overwhelming shrine temple prostitution idolatry issues of tht biblical time period, not homosexuality, only your claiming such a
thing when god did not. I changed nothing, so quite lying and say I am change
something when in fact I am not; your changing it to suite your own perversion.
The putting legalism over the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
2.
2. God blessed an ancient same-sex relationship
the “centurion and his slave”. God did not condemn them knowing the nature of
their love committed relationship.
3.
You refuise to accept biblical truth as it dealt
with biblical and historical facts. You cherry pick Bible verses out of biblical
context and twist them to suite your own perverted think you choose to believe
instead of believing Gods word and what it was dealing with, not homosexuality.
4.
You the one being deceived, god’s grace and
blessings are not given in accordance to you or your perverted thinking, but
according to gods choosing.
5.
Outside
of your bible quotes, all you other statements in regards to them are nothing but rhetorical BS.
GOD IS NOT MAN THAT HE CAN LIE. SCRIPTURES (THE WORD OF GOD)condemn homosexual abomination and perversion in both the old and new testament. No one can change God’s WORD. COME ALL AND SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT GOD HAS STATED…
Matthew 19:1-8 — Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Matthew 19:1-8International Standard Version (ISV)
4 He answered them, “Haven’t you read that the one who made[d] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female’[e] 5 and said, ‘That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?[f] 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, man must never separate.”Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited.
Romans 1:18-32 —Though most of the passages deal with the male perspective, for the first time there is a specific mention of female homosexuality. And as the verdict comes in, we discover it too is a depraved condition brought on by a sinful nature.Romans 1:26-27International Standard Version (ISV)
26 For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural. 27 In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion
1Cor 6:9-11—The only passage of scripture that clearly acknowledges former (ex) homosexuals in the church. They are listed along with other ex-sinners who have been changed by the power of Christ. It is certain that Pastor Paul knew there were former homosexuals in his local church and he celebrated their freedom in Christ Jesus. With a completely different tone in comparison to the volume of harsh, negative reaction to the unrepentant homosexuality, scripture here ends with the tremendous hope and goodness of God.Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
To black dahlia:
1.
I never said god lied, he did notm onmly you are
lying in how you interpret Gods word and apply it!
2.
2. God did not condemn homosexual behavior in
either the Old Testament nor the New testament, no matter HOW YOU TRY TO TWIST His
word to your own feeble twisted mentality.
3.
Now you still
repeat yourself and show your ignorance in Scriptural understanding, Jesus
oftyen quoted Ot passages BUT NOT IN CONDMNING HOMOSEXUALITY, “Jesus” God never
condemned Homosexuality but used an ancient same-sex love relationship as an example of fith the “centurion
and his slave “God never condemned them for their relationship.
4.
All the rest of your comments are dealing with
the shrine temple prostitution idolatry activity.
5.
1Cor 6:9-11 is not an
acknowledgment of former ex homosexuals, it is a reference to the people
involved in the shrine temple prostitution idolatry activity. “wrong doers”.
Paul was not addressing homosexuals but former shrine temple prostitution idolatress
people.
6.
Yes wrong doers will ot inherit
the kingdom, that’s not a indictment of Homosexual people, but those who refuse
to acknowledge god as the one and only true God.
7.
You need to be more carful, because even though
you quote scripture, you twist it to your own jusdgmental attitude to judger
and condemn those that God did not do.
8.
Only god can and will judge fairly and appropriately,
His grace is much stronger than your condemnartion, as He demonstrated in the
incident of the religious leaders trying to trape Jesus in dealing with Mary Magdalene.
I am not interpreting anything – FROM GOD’S WORD DIRECTLY TO ANYONE WHO HAS AN EAR TO HEAR…..
A man cannot be brought to greater slavery than to be given up to his own lusts –
ROMANS 1
26 This is why God HAS GIVEN THEM UP to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
To black dshil;a:
1. When you in your expiation of the verses you
quote convey a message that it does not say, and does not reflect what was
happening in that period it is speaking
of , your interpreting.
2. Were not talking about man’s lust except your
lust to condemn and judge here.
Again Romans is about;
the Shrine temple prostitution Idolatry issues, not about Homosexuality.
What is the context
of Romans 1?
The
context of Romans 1 is idolatry,
not lesbians and not homosexuals.
Paul wrote his epistle to the Romans
from the rowdy port city of Corinth, where sexual immorality and prostitution
were openly practiced. Yet Rome was even more idolatrous than Corinth. Sporting
events in the Circus Maximus and fertility goddess worship in pagan temples
echoed the adulation of idolatrous Romans. Rome was a city wholly given to
idolatry.
Context is important
To understand the Bible, we must
factor in the biblical, cultural, doctrinal, historical, linguistic and
religious context. In Romans 1:26-27, the context isn’t two gay guys or two gay
gals who fall in love and covenant to spend their lives together as a couple.
1. The biblical context is Paul making an argument against idolatry by
summing up the Old Testament record of pagan Gentile worship, not
homosexuality, not gays and lesbians, not transsexuals.
2. The cultural context is the greatest pagan city of the ancient world,
an idolatrous tableau featuring hundreds of pagan temples where multitudes
worshiped false gods.
3. The doctrinal context is Paul writing about righteousness. God requires
righteousness for salvation. We lack righteousness, as evidenced by the pagan
idolatry Paul references. God provides righteousness as a free gift to all who
will receive it, including pagan idolaters.
4. The historical context is mid-first century Rome about 25 years after
the resurrection of Christ, where the main problem was idolatrous worship of
false gods, not gays, not lesbians not transgendered people.
5. The linguistic context is that Paul uses the Greek word, akatharsian,
in Romans 1:24 and 6:19, the same word used in the Greek Septuagint to describe
idolatry and shrine prostitution.
6. The religious context is Cybele, the Phrygian mother goddess who was
worshiped by temple prostitutes in at least six pagan temples in Rome in the
mid-first century AD.
Why
Does MacArthur Hide The Truth?
John MacArthur knows that the context of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 is cult
or shrine or temple prostitution. Yet he also knows that if he puts that
information in his comments on Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, it will undermine his
anti-gay views.
MacArthur and his editors must have struggled mightily with the dishonesty
of not putting what he knows to be true in his comments on Leviticus. Instead,
in his MacArthur Study Bible note on Leviticus 18:22, he writes:
“This outlaws all homosexuality (cf. 20:13, Rom 1:27, 1 Cor 6:9, 1 Tim
1:10). See notes on Gen 19:1-29.”
That’s it. That is John MacArthur’s comment on Leviticus 18:22 in its
entirety. The Grace To You compromise solution to their moral dilemma, was to
put MacArthur’s true beliefs about the context of Leviticus 18:21-22 and 20:13,
not with his Leviticus 18:22 comments on page 180 of The MacArthur Study Bible
but rather, to put them 1146 pages away from Leviticus, on page 1326, with his
comments on Zephaniah 1:5.
Isn’t that a fascinating insight into the mental and moral prestidigitation
of the anti-gay crowd? Further down this page, I quote MacArthur’s comments
about Lev 18:22, found in his notes on Zephaniah 1:5.
In making their specious – superficially plausible but fundamentally wrong
on the facts anti-gay arguments – they also employ a sneaky debate tactic –
defining terms in a way that supports their view or in plainer words, make the
other side start with a tacit acknowledgment of false definitions, thus
shifting the argument away from context and to the false and specious
definitions.
In the extensive reading and research I’ve done on Leviticus 18:22 and
20:13, no scholar I have read presents any biblical cultural doctrinal
historical linguistic or religious proof that 1450 BC Israel had a problem with
gay men and lesbians. As you will see in the quotes from conservative anti-gay
scholars on this page, all of the evidence points to the truth that ancient
Israel had a problem with shrine prostitution and shrine prostitutes and their
pagan sexual worship of false gods.
As you read this shrine prostitutes page, you will notice that scholars admit that the context of Leviticus 18:22 and
20:13 is cult prostitution or shrine prostitution or temple prostitution –
different scholars use different terms for the same thing.
I intentionally quote conservative Christian scholars, some of them with two
earned doctorate degrees, because they all tend to be anti-gay. Yet none of
them can cite any historical facts to prove that Moses was talking about gays
and lesbians.
One of the scholars I quote, famed polyglot Dr. Charles Lee Fineburg (who
was John MacArthur’s favorite professor at Talbot Seminary), was conversant in
30 languages and had two earned doctorates. If anyone had the linguistic and
scholarly chops to find proof that the context of Leviticus was gays and
lesbians, it would be Dr. Fineburg yet he presents no proof for that.
To sum up Lev 18:22 and 20:13
Things To Consider
About Shrine Prostitutes
In Leviticus chapters 17 to 26,
sometimes called the Holiness Code, Moses analogizes incest and beastiality
with shrine prostitution, not homosexuality. That is not a gay viewpoint. Many
anti-gay conservative Bible scholars and Bible translations point out the
problem of cult, shrine or temple prostitution in ancient Canaan and ancient
Israel.
The SCRIPTURES CANNOT BE BROKEN. God has condemned homosexuality in both the old and new testaments. 1 Corinthians 6:9Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
Top black dahlia:
1.No Scripture cannot
be broken glade you agree, therefore you must agree that god Blessed an ancient
same-sex relationship , the “centurion and his slave” there by agreeing that
god through His son never condemned homosexuality by blessing the same-sex relationship
of the centurion and his slave!
2. No God did not condemn homosexuality in the old testament
nor the New Testament, only you are condemning
it by making a claim that God did not do!
3.
your 1 Corinthians quote is correct “1 Corinthians 6:9Don’t you realize that
those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves.
Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or
are male prostitutes, But this does not include
nor implicate “Homosexuality” only again you
are doing so, you one screwed up puppy girl.
4. Why are you trying to break scripture?
THIS IS QUOTING SCRIPTURE – NOT BREAKING IT….
Leviticus 20:1
“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Leviticus 18:22
‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Romans 1 26-27
26For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural. 27In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion
Can a homosexual enter into the kingdom of heaven?
Because salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone and we are not saved by our works good or bad, yes, a homosexual person (non practicing homosexual) can go to heaven.
Having said this, however, there is always the question of whether such a person has faced their sin and truly put their trust in Christ. If they have, then to continue with a homosexual lifestyle is living in rebellion and a believer will eventually experience misery and divine discipline.
The Scripture, which is God-breathed and accurate, gives us God’s declaration concerning this issue. It clearly states that it is sinful and contrary to man’s basic nature and the way God created us. Scripture gives us God’s revelation on this, not to keep us from having fun or from enjoying life, but to protect us from ourselves and the depravity to which we can all go when we seek to live our lives apart from a relationship with Him in the light of the Bible as His index and authority for both belief (doctrine) and practice (behavior).
Homosexuality is Condemned in the Bible!
The Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality is as clear and plain as the Bible’s condemnation of murder, adultery, premarital sex, kidnapping, lying and idolatry. Further, for me to openly condemn homosexuality theologically makes me no more a “gay basher” than I am an “adultery basher”, “premarital sex basher”, “kidnapper basher” or a “murderer basher”. If you disagree, your argument is with God’s Bible.
The homosexual community has two ways of promoting their personal choices of being homosexual through the religious forum. First, some will claim the Bible actually promotes and condones homosexuality. Second, others try to get the Bible banned from public use by categorizing it as hate literature.
For any to use the Bible to condone rather than condemn homosexual activity in the theological arena just proves such a one has absolutely no idea what the Bible actually teaches. For anyone to suggest the Bible says homosexual activity is acceptable to God, is nothing short of willful blindness. So to set the record straight once and for all, here is what the Bible teaches on the subject.
HOMOSEXUALS KNOW THAT GOD CONDEMNS HOMOSEXUALITY – the wages of sin is death!
Premier pro-homosex polemicist D.S. Bailey confessed, “It is hardly open to doubt that both the laws in Leviticus relate to ordinary homosexual acts between men, and not to ritual or other acts performed in the name of religion,”[38] while his compatriot Robin Scroggs states, “It might seem that only a series of verbal pyrotechnics could eliminate the seemingly obvious reference to homosexuality in Romans 1,”[39] though he himself attempts to do so. Noted Bible scholar Greg Bahnsen stated, “God’s verdict on homosexuality is inescapably clear. His law is a precise interpretation of the sexual order of creation for fallen man, rendering again His intention and direction for sexual relations. When members of the same sex (homo-sexual) practice intercourse with each other…they violate God’s basic creation order in a vile and abominable fashion.”[40] Calvin Smith objectively concludes, “the weak revisionist exegetical arguments, together with far more convincing traditionalist rebuttals, have led me to affirm the traditional view more firmly than ever.[41]
God has never blessed homosexual relations ever. The Old Testament he condemned homosexuals to death. In the New Testament God told us unequivocally that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is condemnation in both the Old and New Testaments by God. Not ever going to change.
God is not a screwed-up puppy. He is God and he has declared in both the Old and New Testaments homosexuality is an abomination and perversion. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthiana 6:9….. God is not a man that He can lie. You have been sent a strong delusion and are believing your satanic own satanic lies. You have made your choice I just hate the fact that you’re taking others to hell with you. I have no sympathy for those who willfully defy God and know better.
Jesus said nothing about blessing any homosexual filth. He cured the Centurion slave. No homosexuality involved just in your own sick and nasty mind You crazies grasp at any straw and try to pervert the gospel. God is not mocked what you have sown you will reap. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God 1 Corinthiana 6:9
Sin is ancient. Homosexuality is an ancient sin. In the Old Testament both participants were ordered to be put to death. In the New Testament we are told that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is found in 1st Corinthians 6 verse 9. Homosexual abomination and perversion is condemned in both the Old and New Testaments.
op black dahlia:
1.No Scripture cannot
be broken glade you agree, therefore you must agree that god Blessed an ancient
same-sex relationship , the “centurion and his slave” there by agreeing that
god through His son never condemned homosexuality by blessing the same-sex relationship
of the centurion and his slave!
2. No God did not condemn homosexuality in the old testament
nor the New Testament, only you are condemning
it by making a claim that God did not do!
3.
your 1 Corinthians quote is correct “1 Corinthians 6:9Don’t you realize that
those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves.
Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or
are male prostitutes, But this does not include
nor implicate “Homosexuality” only again you
are doing so, you one screwed up puppy girl.
4. Why are you trying to break scripture?
I AGREE THAT GOD HAS CONDEMNED HOMOSEXUALITY IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS.
Matthew 19:1-8 — Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited.
Romans 1:18-32 —Though most of the passages deal with the male perspective, for the first time there is a specific mention of female homosexuality. And as the verdict comes in, we discover it too is a depraved condition brought on by a sinful nature.
1Cor 6:9-11—The only passage of scripture that clearly acknowledges former (ex) homosexuals in the church. They are listed along with other ex-sinners who have been changed by the power of Christ. It is certain that Pastor Paul knew there were former homosexuals in his local church and he celebrated their freedom in Christ Jesus. With a completely different tone in comparison to the volume of harsh, negative reaction to the unrepentant homosexuality, scripture here ends with the tremendous hope and goodness of God.
Galatians 5:19 — Many areas that the apostle traveled to take the gospel indeed were very accepting of homosexual practices, yet he did not back away from communicating the sinfulness of such practice. Corinth, Ephesus and Rome as well as other major cities of the ancient world, were all too often cesspools of all forms of sexual immorality. Undeterred, Paul drew from sources familiar to him and forged them with New testament teachings of God’s grace to forgive and cleanse. In the letter to the Galatians, he teaches that the “works [not plurality] of the flesh are manifest. The flesh or sinful human nature is always considered and enemy to God.
Ephesians 5:3-7— Paul repeats his warnings against “uncleaness” to the church at Ephesus.
Colossians 3:5-7 — Paul issues his third warning against “uncleaness” to the church at Colosse. This time he adds instructions on overcoming/controlling the sin. Believers are to mortify or deaden themselves and exercise self control (a fruit of the Spirit) over such actions. Homosexuals claim that denying the free expression of homosexuality is “suppressing one’s true self”, but scripture clearly instructs that we are hold our bodies in check and refuse it participation in sexual immorality. This passage further emphasizes that no one should expect to escape the “wrath of God” except they repent.
1 Tim 1:10 — the law was not made for the righteous, but for the “lawless and disobedient.” The law (of Moses) encompassed the ceremonial, judicial and moral components of human interaction. Christ neutralized the ceremonial aspects but upheld the judicial and moral aspects, tendered with grace and mercy. Hence, homosexuality remains a sin “worthy of death” but yet qualified for forgiveness through repentance. The phrase Paul uses “defiling themselves with mankind” is another link of homosexual behavior to disobedience and uncompatible to sound or acceptable Christian doctrine.
Titus 1:16 — This is an aggressive attack and exposure of the psychosis of those who are “defiled” and commit “abominations”. Again, let us identify the source of the Apostle Paul’s strong condemnation. When one accepts what God has pronounced abominable (by God’s own definition) and rejects the created model which God has pronounced good, a process of hardening and mental perversion begins to take root in the mind. Such is the danger of justifying sin. Sin corrupts the mind and conscience (the seat of individual integrity and morality) rendering it incapable of making spiritually sound decisions.
Jude 1:4,7,19 — Jude forcefully revealed that like the Sodomites, certain men in the church had gone after “strange flesh.” I believed Jude was describing contemporary “gay christians”. His choice of phraseology is a combination of two words: heteros and sarx meaning “another flesh with the same quality.” His inclusion of the word flesh pointed to the homosexuality (not the inhospitality) of the Sodomites. Similar to the Apostle Paul, Jude selected strong language to convey the serious of the charge facing the church. Allowing unrepentant homosexuals into Christian fellowship without applying the same standards of admission applied to other sinners would be a spiritual death nell for the church. Repentance is the major action a sinner must take to be accepted into the family of God.
Rev 21:27—The final book of the Bible, finalizing a complete picture stunning denouncements of all forms of homosexual conduct. From Genesis to Revelation, the Word of God firmly establishes once and for all the sinfulness of homosexuality, but also provides a wide opportunity for repentance and redemption through Jesus Christ. Homosexuality, as seen through the eyes of scripture is a spiritual aberration, a result of the fallen nature of man, a disease of the soul. It produces nothing life giving, in essence opposite of the nature of God who is life. Therefore it “worketh” or produces abomination which is death.
To black dahila:
1.
I did not agree with you that God condemned
homosexuality in both the OT and NT, because He did not, you just twisting my
statement, that I said I agree ‘god’s word cannot be changed. God Jesus Christ never
even connected Homosexuality to sin or immorality.
2.
Pauls writing in Colossians
3:5-7 is not about homosexuality, it is about the shrine temple prostitution Idolatry
activity where sexuality was incorporated into idolatry worship,(which was a pervasive
and predominate issue through ouit the OT going ino the Nt) , Paul encourages colossi
to put aside all sexual activity in worshiping the one and true god.
3.
The issue of strange flesh in both the ot and n.t
is more a reference to sexually going after
angels as people of Sodom Gomorrah did, not homosexuality.
6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned
their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the
judgment of the great day, 7 just as, (ὡς)
Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as,
(τὸν ὅμοιον τρόπον) these indulged in gross immorality and went
after strange flesh (σαρκὸς ἑτέρας), are exhibited as an example
in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
The Issue
Idiomatic Hapax:
This expression appears “idiomatic”, and seems to be a Hapax in
Greek Literature. Could this be idiomatic in another language, like
Aramaic?
Ezekiel 16:48-49
– explicitly states that God “removed” Sodom because they
refused to help the poor and needy, (but never references
homosexuality).
A comment noted that ἑτέρα(ς) was used differently by
different NT writers, (Acts 2:4), which may leads to an entirely different
understanding.
Greek term ἕτερος (the lexical form of ἑτέρα(ς),
meaning “other/another”) is transliterated as heteros; –
This seems to be the exact opposite of what would be expected in this
context — ὅμοιος (homoios, meaning “like, similar”).
Jude1:6 says the angels of v.6 and
men of Sodom in v.7 indulged “in the same way”, so may I suggest
adding v.6 to your quote? It provides necessary context for understanding the
phrase in question, or least must be explained in an answer. Thanks! – Schuh Sep 10 ’15 at 20:53
5. Matthew
19:1-8 is about divorce not homosexuality you grabing at straws to twist this into
referencing homosexuality. You argument fails completely as it does not meet
scriptural muster. The verdict is in your wrong!.
6. All
you other scriptural reference, most of which we have dealt
with, I am not going to re-litigate them with you.
7. Jesus
had been given all autgority in heaven and on esth, this means He being God in
the flesh, is scripture supreim authgority, and He never condemned
homosexuality nor even connected it to sin while He taught exstensivly on sin
issues. Jesus exercised His authority in His teaching, mericals, healing, and
calming of the seas.
8. I
sugest you put Histeaching in its proper Scripture authority, and stop trying
to raise others teaching above His in authority.
REV 21: 27 IS REFERENCING ENTERING THE KINGDOM OF HEAN ONLY THOSE WHOSE NAM ARE WRITTIN IN NTHE BOOK OF LIFE, IT IS NOT REFERRENCING GAYS OR HOMOSEXUALITY, there are gay christians who are saved and whose names are included in the book of life, becarefull you do not remove your name by yourtwisting gods word to mean something He did not say or do.
It doesn’t make any difference what you agree with. God has laid down the Commandments and you have no choice in the matter. Sorry for you homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God
To black dahlia:
1.
I agree with God Jesus Christ “God”, He never
connected homosexuality to sin or being a perversion, you are the one making the faults
claim that He did, your agreement or disagreement mattes not and carries no weight!
As a matter of fact
Jesus never condemned anyone, only mind sets and attitudes that people
embraced.
2.
Gods condemnation of homosexuals does not exist
in gods commandment’s, again that is only in your own perverted mind and
thinking in how you twist God and His word to your own understanding and interpretation’s.
Then again this is what you conservatives do!
3.
When you get to heaven, if you get there, your going
to be surprised at who you see, and shocked at who you don’t see. You’re going
to see people “ homosexuals” in this life, whose names are written in the book
of life.
4.
Ones salvation is not determined by your
scriptural understanding or interpretation dear, so quite trying to condmn
those out of your hate, biases and prejudices.
5.
Homosexuality is Condemned in the Bible!For any to use the Bible to condone rather than condemn homosexual activity in the theological arena just proves such a one has absolutely no idea what the Bible actually teaches. For anyone to suggest the Bible says homosexual activity is acceptable to God, is nothing short of willful blindness. So to set the record straight once and for all, here is what the Bible teaches on the subject.
Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, and a “man who lies with a man”
by Matt Slick
Lev. 18:22
‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” (NASB)
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” (ESV, NKJV)
Clearly, the Old Testament condemns homosexuality. What else does it mean when it says “you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female”? The term “lie with” here refers to sexual intercourse in the phrase “lie with a male as one lies with a female.” It is an abomination. The word here is תֹּועֵבָה towʿebah, toʿebah.
117 occurrences; AV translates as “abomination” 113 times, “abominable thing” twice, and “abominable” twice. 1 a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable. 1a in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages). 1b in ethical sense (of wickedness etc. ).1
Lev. 20:13
“If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.” (NASB)
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” (ESV)
The word “detestable” is the same Hebrew word found in Lev. 18:22, “abomination.”
There can be no doubt that the Old Testament condemns homosexuality as a detestable act worthy of death.
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators [Gk: paramours], nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [Gk: catamites homosexuals], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [Gk: sodomites] nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God” (I Cor. 6:9-10)
.cat·a·mite
ˈkadəˌmīt/
nounarchaic
plural noun: catamites
a boy kept for homosexual practices.
GOD UNABASHEDLY CONDEMNS HOMOSEXUAL PERVERSION/ABOMINATION.
THESE PERVERSIONS ARE CONDEMNED IN SCRIPTURE
“I wrote unto you in an epistle not to keep company with fornicators [Gk: ‘pornos’-paramour/male prostitutes] …with such an one not to eat” (I Cor. 5:9-11).
“For this you know, that no whoremonger [Gk: pornos-paramour/male prostitute] …has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God” (Eph. 5:5).
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for …whoremongers [Gk: pornos-paramour/male prostitute] …and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine” (I Tim. 1:9-10).
“Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled, but whoremongers [Gk: pornos-paramour/male prostitute] and adulterers God will judge” (Heb. 13:4).
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers [Gk: pornos-paramour/male prostitute], and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone which is the second death” (Rev. 21:8).
“Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs and sorcerers, and whoremongers [Gk: parnos-paramour/male prostitute], and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes [practices] a lie” (Rev. 22:14-15).
“Be not deceived, neither …effeminate [Gk: malakos-catamite/boy with man sex] shall inherit the kingdom of God” (I Cor. 6:9-10).
“Be not deceived, neither …abusers of themselves with mankind [Gk: arsenokoites-sodomites/male bed partners/male-liers] shall inherit the kingdom of God” (I Cor. 6:9-10).
What The Bible Says About Homosexuality … indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion” (Romans 1:26-27).
You have seen this for yourself and so has everyone else. You are a liar.
Isn’t my teaching it’s the teaching of the theologians and the teaching that God has handed down to us. Homosexuality is condemned in both the Old Testament and Leviticus and the New Testament in Romans. Nothing you can do to change it. 1st Corinthians 6:9 says explicitly that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom. There’s nothing you can do about it. You are in denial and you will be held accountable for your homosexual perversion.
Jesus himself told you in no uncertain terms that God created them male and female and for this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh. This says nothing about accepting homosexual perversion and abomination which Jesus upheld in the Old Testament.
You can’t get divorced unless you first to get married and marriage is between a man and a wife (Woman) Jesus himself told you that in Matthew. Deal with it!
Jesus exercised his authority on defining marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Jesus plainly told you that we are created male and female. He also stated that in order to be divorced you must first be married. He defined marriage as being between a man and a woman. Nothing you can do about it. 1st Corinthians 6:9 tells you explicitly that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. There’s no greater condemnation than this. Deal with it. You are hell bound and trying to take others with you.
Yes “like” similar it is an abomination to have sex with a same sex male you are male. You have dealt with nothing because you cannot deal with it. Any male who has sex with another male was put to death in the Old Testament. In the New Testament it is condemned as sin and homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God as plainly stated in 1st Corinthians 6:9. You will however inherit hell from your daddy Satan. Your fellow sodomist.
“What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?” is that it was homosexuality. That is how the term “sodomy” came to be used to refer to anal sex between two men, whether consensual or forced. Clearly, homosexuality was part of why God destroyed the two cities. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to perform homosexual gang rape on the two angels (who were disguised as men). At the same time, it is not biblical to say that homosexuality was the exclusive reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were definitely not exclusive in terms of the sins in which they indulged.
Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me…” The Hebrew word translated “detestable” refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an “abomination.” Similarly, Jude 7 declares, “…Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.” So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.
Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable. There is probably nothing more inhospitable than homosexual gang rape. But to say God completely destroyed two cities and all their inhabitants for being inhospitable clearly misses the point. While Sodom and Gomorrah were guilty of many other horrendous sins, homosexuality was the reason God poured fiery sulfur on the cities, completely destroying them and all of their inhabitants. To this day, the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were located remains a desolate wasteland. Sodom and Gomorrah serve as a powerful example of how God feels about sin in general, and homosexuality specifically.
Recommended Resource: What Does the Bible Really Teach About Homosexuality? by Kevin DeYoung and 101 Frequently Asked Questions About Homosexuality by Mike Haley
THE TRUTHFUL AND objective, unbiased reader of the Bible is forced to conclude that God destroyed the men of Sodom on account of their sinful practice of homosexuality. Homosexuality itself is condemned in Scripture. Under the Law of Moses, God made homosexuality a capital crime that evoked the death penalty. He stipulated that both parties to the illicit sexual activity were to be put to death (Leviticus 20:13). God would not have required the innocent victim of homosexual rape to be executed along with the rapist.
YES SODOM AND GOMORRAH WERE GUILTY OF HOMOSEXUAL ABOMINATION AMONG OTHER SINS….
In light of the passage, the most common response to the question “What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?” is that it was homosexuality. That is how the term “sodomy” came to be used to refer to anal sex between two men, whether consensual or forced. Clearly, homosexuality was part of why God destroyed the two cities. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to perform homosexual gang rape on the two angels (who were disguised as men). At the same time, it is not biblical to say that homosexuality was the exclusive reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were definitely not exclusive in terms of the sins in which they indulged.
Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me…” The Hebrew word translated “detestable” refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an “abomination.” Similarly, Jude 7 declares, “…Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.” So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.
Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable. There is probably nothing more inhospitable than homosexual gang rape. But to say God completely destroyed two cities and all their inhabitants for being inhospitable clearly misses the point. While Sodom and Gomorrah were guilty of many other horrendous sins, homosexuality was the reason God poured fiery sulfur on the cities, completely destroying them and all of their inhabitants. To this day, the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were located remains a desolate wasteland. Sodom and Gomorrah serve as a powerful example of how God feels about sin in general, and homosexuality specifically.
Recommended Resource: What Does the Bible Really Teach About Homosexuality? by Kevin DeYoung and 101 Frequently Asked Questions About Homosexuality by Mike Haley
YOU CANNOT BE A PRACTICING HOMOSEXUAL AND INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. You will suffer the same fate as SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
◄ Jude 1:7 ►
New International Version
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
IN CASE YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT SEXUAL PERVERSION IS – READ THIS SCRIPTURE….
ROMANS 1
“26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (NIV)”
GOD CONDEMNS HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT AS WELL AS THE OLD TESTAMENT. ALL OF THE MORAL LAWS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT ARE WITHIN THE 1050 COMMANDS AND 67 SINS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.
Genesis 1:27—Many religious homosexuals argue that God “created” them as homosexuals, but this passage refutes without question that God did not “create” as an original purpose same gender sexual relationships. Furthermore, to date, there is no credible proof that homosexuality is genetic, an argument raised in an attempt to negate the truth of God’s creative intent.
Genesis 6:19 —God instructs Noah to preserve only male/female pairings of animals to propagate each species. God’s intent is proof of the dead, unfruitful nature of homosexuality opposite the living, fruitful and creative nature of God. Supports the opposite gender sexual intent even in the animal kingdom.
Genesis 9:20-24 — The Bible’s first recorded instance of homosexual activity. Noah’s dereliction of duty as a leader allowed the activity to occur. There was no blessing of this activity, but rather a curse.
Genesis 10:15-19 — Caanan, the grandson was the direct ancestor of the inhabitants of Sodom. This establishes “familiar” spirits within family associations.
Genesis 19:4-13 —The story of Sodom’s sins of greed, hatred and sexual perversion (as told Ezekiel 16:49) is one of the most widely referenced and hotly debated texts concerning homosexuality there are. The main point is that pride (in one’s sins) will invariably draw God’s wrath. Homosexuality is the “case in point” sin here.
Leviticus 5:3 —God addresses situational moral sins. The word “uncleanness” is translated from the Hebrew tame Because sexual contact between males was defiling, God charged the priests and Levites to deal with it as object lessons of his holiness.
Leviticus 18:22;24-30 —This is the second, more distinct command issued by God prohibited male/male sexual relations. Contrary to biblical revisionists who say this scripture does not foresee “committed, monogamous gay relationships,” Leviticus 18:22 is a sweeping condemnation of all homosexual unions whether forced or consensual.
Leviticus 20:13 —This is the 3rd warning issued advising homosexuals of the consequences of their actions. Like a father God allows opportunity for repentance, but when it is refused he imposes the death sentence. The word “abomination.” is derived from the Hebrew “toevah”, which denotes a clash of basic dispositions between the righteous and unrighteous. Hence, homosexuality was seen as destructive to the family structure and society.
Duet 22:5 — Prohibits cross dressing (transvestism) among the sexes. These were specific practices of the idols worshippers inhabiting Canaan. Most of the practices were meant to appease the “gods” and thereby gain a good harvest.
Deut 23:17 —God is sovereign and he commanded that there be no homosexuals (sodomites from the Hebrew word Qadesh, which specifically pointed to male homosexuals who worshipped false gods. Ashtoreth/Astarte was the Canaanite deity who required this type of devotion.
Judges 2:11-13 —The religion of the Canaanites (descendents of Ham) was as corrupt and vile a religion as one could get. It involved on a regular basis child murders (sacrifice), self -mutilation, ritual prostitution and homosexuality. Most pro-homosexual religionists say God does not have a problem with their sexual preference, but this indicates that God considered it ”evil.”
Judges 19:22-24 —This passage is almost identical to the Genesis passage involving Sodom, although it involves a completely different group of people. Interestingly enough, the people of Gibeah were related to the Sodomites.
1Kings 14:22-24 —This passage highlights the rise of “tolerance” and evil it brings when sin is promoted through government. Governments should never sanction immorality because it has a destructive element which affects all people, both direct and indirectly. The King was strongly influenced by the “diversity” of his mother, Namah (verse 21) of the Ammonites who were relatives of the Sodomites.
1Kings 15:11-13 — Today many people get offended and question why homosexuality is “singled out,” but in this passage, the scribe does exactly that. Out of 13 other hideous Canaanite-adopted practices, the practice of sodomy-influenced religion in Israel was specifically treated as a specific threat to the security, health and religious integrity of God’s people. Asa, unlike Rehoboam before him, removed his own mother who also followed “tolerance” policies. Tolerance is dangerous when it is not based on biblical love.
1Kings 22:43;46 — Jehosaphat, the head of state did what was “right” in the eyes of the Lord and removed religious homosexuals from influential positions within the country. This was a civil decision based on God’s commandments. It shows how secular leaders can cause blessings to come upon the land by refusing to allow laws and policies which hurt and damage the well being of the nation at large.
2Kings 23:4-7— Josiah, another King of Isreal institutes reforms which specifically call for the removal of homosexuals who were influential in leading Isreal astray. His actions were part of a “covenant” with God.
Ezekiel 16:49,50— God did not destroy Sodom primarily because of the gross practice of homosexuality. Although it is evident it was a deciding factor, Sodom’s sin of pride exacerbated their offensiveness to God. The lesson to contemporary gays: STOP the “gay pride” marches!
Daniel 11:37— A reference to the sexual nature of the antichrist as envisioned by Daniel. The word “desire” is from Hebrew chamad, which point to lust and desire associated with male/female sexuality.
For these reasons, the Gay Centurion Heresy IS TO BE REJECTED BY CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS.
1. The Greek word here translated, “servant,” is παῖς (pais), and can indeed be translated as a male child. There are several other instances in the New Testament of is being used in this way, including Matthew 17:18, “Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment.” But in other places, it is clearly delineating a master-servant relationship rather than father-son, such as Luke 12:45, “But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’…” The Centurion himself defines the relationship by talking about, and giving examples of, giving orders that he expects to be followed.
2. The Greek word translated “highly valued,” is ἔντιμος (entimos). Many translations use the word “love” here, appropriately. But nowhere in the New Testament is this word wrapped in any kind of sexual connotation. This is the love of one who knows their servant is working hard and showing respect to the master. Had Luke intended to imply sexual love, he would have used “eros” instead.
3. The local leaders of the synagogue pleaded with Jesus on behalf of the Centurion. Orthodox Jews would not have accepted aid in building a synagogue from someone whose lifestyle was so inconsistent with the Torah’s prohibitions on homosexual behavior. For the locals to be so soundly recommending this Gentile, representing a repressive empire, for Jesus’ assistance, he must have been a “God-fearer,” one who accepted the Torah’s teachings and practices regarding worship, diet and relationships.
4. Jesus is consistent in his use of the word, “faith,” that he does not merely mean an intellectual assent to facts, but a transformed life where that faith impacts one’s behavior. James emphasizes this point in his epistle. When Jesus says that he has “not found such faith even in Israel,” that complement would not have been bestowed upon someone resolute in remaining in a sinful sexual relationship.
5. Jesus made a habit of hanging around with sinners, befriending them. This drove his opponents nuts. But befriending sinners should not be interpreted as accepting of their lifestyle. So even if this had been a gay Centurion, Jesus’ silence should not be interpreted as endorsement of homosexuality. Jesus was not promoting adultery when he saved a woman caught in the act from stoning. Jesus was not endorsing extortionist tax collection policies when he called Matthew to be his disciple. He was not endorsing drunkenness when he attended a wedding where wine was being served. He was not endorsing theft when he forgave the thief on the cross. Jesus befriends sinners, but he calls them to a transformed life.
John Byron
I am Professor of New Testament at Ashland Theological Seminary. I enjoy teaching and researching a variety of topics in Early Judaism and Christianity.
It is a story about a servant and a master……..
The Greek noun pais is used in the New Testament 24 times and has a range of meanings that include “adolescent,” “child” and “servant.” In the LXX (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) it appears numerous times and it always refers to a “servant.” There are no occurrences of the term anywhere in the Bible that can be interpreted a referring to the junior partner in a homosexual relationship. With that in mind, we might be better off translating pais as “servant” here, which Michaelson favors.
Second, Michaelson acknowledges that in Luke’s version of the story the person in question is first called a “slave” in 7:2 (doulos) while the Centurion calls him a pais. He suggests that this distinction is important by which I assume he is suggesting that perhaps Luke got the terminology wrong but the Centurion got it correct. But Luke is writing all of this and would have been aware of the two terms which can in fact be used as synonyms. (See the first chapter in my Slavery Metaphors).
A better explanation for the difference in terminology in Luke might be that Matthew and Luke had a common source that identified the person in question as a pais, which could be taken as either “child” or “servant.” Matthew decided to leave the whole scene ambiguous by not introducing it with an explanation that the centurion had a sick slave (doulos). If you read Matthew’s version substituting “child” for “servant” (with the exception of 8:9 where the word is doulos) the story could just as easily be about the centurion’s son and not his servant (Hagner alludes to this in his commentary, p. 204). Luke, on the other hand, recognized the ambiguity in the story engendered by pais, and decided to clear it up by calling the person in question a “slave” (doulos) because that is who Luke thought he was. Had Luke not made that addition in 7:2 both stories could be read as the healing of the centurion’s “child.”
Third, it is true that pais could be used as a term of endearment for slaves. As bad as slavery was/is there were those cases when a slave and master did become close. But that does not automatically translate into homosexuality. For instance, we have a copy of a letter sent by Augustus to one Stephanos of Laodicea. In the letter Augustus says “you know how fond I am of my Zoilos.” This Zoilos was a former slave of Augustus who apparently became very close with the emperor. But no one is suggesting that the two were lovers in a same-sex relationship. Zoilos was apparently very valuable to Augustus and the emperor developed affection for him.
Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible. The most comprehensive, general passage against homosexual conduct is at Romans 1:18-32. Below are additional specific Bible verses that condemn homosexuality: Leviticus 18:22 – You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 18:22 – You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 – If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 – For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Romans 6:23 – For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I Corinthians 6:9(NIV) – Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB) – “But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.”
2 Peter 2:6 (ESV): – … by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes [God] condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly
Jude 1:6-7 (NASB) – And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
IT SEEMS THAT THE BIBLE DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOUR HOMOSEXUAL PERVERSION AND ABOMINATION – YOUR CONSCIENCE IS SEARED…..
Biblical References Against Homosexual “Marriage”
Many passages in the Bible implicitly condemn homosexual “marriage”:[11]
Genesis 2:24 (“Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”)
Mark 10:6-8 (“But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’”)
Epistle to the Hebrews 13:4 (“Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.”).
Biblical Requirement to Disapprove of Homosexuality by Others
The Bible condemns those who approve of homosexual conduct:
Romans 1:32: “Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.”[12]
Proverbs 24:24–25: “He who says to the wicked, ‘You are righteous,’
Peoples will curse him, nations will abhor him; But to those who rebuke the wicked will be delight, And a good blessing will come upon them.”[13]
Homosexuality and the Bible and the City of Sodom
Jesus referred to Sodom at Matthew 10:15 (“Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.”).[14] The Bible also mentions Sodom in other biblical books.
Genesis warns in the strongest terms possible against the evil that occurs when homosexuality becomes prevalent in a society.
Destruction of Sodom by God
Christian apologist Dr. Phil Fernandes states the following regarding the judgment of Sodom by God:
“ The Bible tells us of the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah. Though homosexuality was not the only vice of these cities, the Bible makes it clear that this sin was one of the main reasons why God judged them. Genesis 19:1-11 speaks of the men of Sodom gathering at Lot’s house and calling out to Lot, saying, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with” (Genesis 19:5). Lot’s two visitors were actually angels who manifested themselves as men. Lot’s carnal attempt to rescue his visitors was his offer to provide the men of Sodom with his two virgin daughters (Genesis 19:8). But, the men of Sodom rejected Lot’s offer. Finally, the angels miraculously struck the immoral men with blindness (Genesis 19:11). Jude, commenting on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, wrote, “Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire” (Jude 7).[15]
Homosexuals will not INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD…. 1st Corinthians 6:9. God’s word is forever settled in heaven.
to black dahila:
1. says you, Scripture does not say or state that, what you keep claiming.
2. scripture does not specifically say, or specify homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
3.It does say wrongdoers , yes, but God through His son Jesus Christ never connected them to wrong doers or sin.He actually used an ancient same-sex relationship the “centurion and his slave”, lifting them up as an example of Faith!
First, for some general background on our views, see Morality and Ethics Questions and Answers under the heading “Homosexuality: What are the biblical and ethical issues?”
The Bible’s statements on sexuality cannot be limited to the six main verses which condemn homosexuality.
The Bible’s statements on sexuality cannot be limited to the six main verses which condemn homosexuality. In the creation account, we see that God created mankind male and female (specifically, he created a man and a woman, Adam and Eve), and that this sexual duality is both central to human beings as a species, and also the foundation for marriage. Thus the monogamous lifelong marriage is always the ideal in Scripture. While the Bible has numerous examples of positive portrayals of non-sexual love between two men or two women (Jonathan and David, or Ruth and Naomi, etc), there is no positive portrayal of a homosexual relationship, and no hint of even the concept of homosexual marriage. In addition, the Bible’s teaching on marriage assumes that this is between a man and a woman.
Second, the view that the Bible only condemns homosexual relationships that are somehow abusive or non-consensual cannot be squared with the Bible’s actual text. Paul speaks of men burning with lust for one another (Romans 1:27), which indicates that both are willing participants. In general, pro-homosexual interpreters must reinterpret the text to include elements that could not have been in the author’s mind, or to leave out critical parts of the argument
Third, people often argue that the Bible verses must be reinterpreted in order to prevent hate crimes against gay people that the traditional interpretations might inspire. However, that is largely a bigoted stereotype against conservative Christians. I have never seen a Christian who hates gay people as a group, and I would take them to task for it if I did. That isn’t to say that there aren’t any, but they aren’t a prevalent group.
If someone wants to argue that the Bible is wrong to condemn homosexuality in such universal terms, they are certainly free to do so. But it is not possible to responsibly exegete the text of Scripture to come up with an interpretation that does not condemn homosexuality.
I encourage you also to read our little booklet Gay Marriage: Right or Wrong?
To black dahlia:
1.
I do not need to be educated on what is
considered immoral, I know what it is.
2. Homosexuality is not immoral, only considered to
be immoral by conservative twisted people who “1” cannot consider any thing( of
constructive value) that is different from what they “conservatives” have been taught
and raised with, and 2”” especially when
it differs from their own conservative life style beliefs.
3.
John 1:3 we see stated by God Himself; through
him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. This
ends your argument, god has claimed to be the creator of everything, this
includes Homosexuals, and of our divers world, they just did not happen or appear out of thin
air.
4. Paul in all his writings as you
quote them is addressing the “shrine temple prostitution idolatry activity “ of
his time, in which both same-sex and heterosexuality acts were common and
committed during the idolatrous activity. It’s about bringing sexual activity in worship
of faults Gods, period!
5. In OT times married was mainly a
arranged contract between certain people, women were property, not considered
an equal. Beside concubines and harems were common place in OT times.
6. Marrage is mot a modern concept
that had emerged from the N T.
7. I and no one I know of is arguing that “that the Bible is wrong to condemn homosexuality in such
universal terms, they are certainly free to do so. But it is not possible to
responsibly exegete the text of Scripture to come up with an interpretation
that does not condemn homosexuality”.
8. Were just saying the Bible does
not condemn Homosexuality, that condemnation is a twist conservative put out
that has no biblical bases to it. They take Scripture out of its contextual
context called “cherry picking” to add
their own twist which is a perversion using God and His word to do so.
Yes you do need to be educated – YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT IS IMMORAL – OR YOU ARE DELIBERLY DEFYING THE LIVING GOD AND HIS COMMANDMENT TO MANKIND. God also created satan who is THE FATHER OF ALL LIES….to say that he created homosexuals and murderers is the same reasoning.
GOD HIMSELF HAS STATED HIS LAWS…. sexual sins pollute the land and you defile your own body.
Leviticus 20:13New Living Translation (NLT)
13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Romans 1 24-27 New Living Translation (NLT)
24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
Since YOU thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned YOU to YOUR foolish thinking and let YOU do things that should never be done.
Homosexuality is demonic perversion,an abomination.
To black dahlia:
Your
whole comment” Since YOU thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned
YOU to YOUR foolish thinking and let YOU do things that should never be done.
Homosexuality is demonic perversion, an abomination”. Is insane
and foolish, not God but you your now the complete side kick of Satan!
I
never even said or implied the “YOU thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned YOU to
YOUR foolish thinking and let YOU do things that should never be done”
.
1. I
am a blessed man of god who god has blessed beyond my wildest dreams. I know
and realized how blessed of god I am. I am one of god’s righteous followers who
experiences His favor and leadership. What happened to you?
2.
2. The only foolish thinking demonstrated here
is you lady Satan side kick, a “she devil”.
3.
Homosexuality is not demonic nor a perversion,
yet you call whzat God blessed in the centurion slave issue demonic, when God did no such thing. Now your
indirectly calling God Himself a perversion when in John 1:3 he made the statement He crested all creation,
which includes gay homosexual people. All creation
4.
Your tredding on thin ice girl, whstch it befor
tyou breakthrough the ice!
5.
You’re the only one calling homsexuaslity a
perversi9n, god never did!
When PRACTICING HOMOSEXUALS refuse to heed the commandments of God he abandons them to their sin….sorry for you.
Romans 1: 24 This is why God has given them up to the vileness of their hearts’ lusts, to the shameful misuse of each other’s bodies.
To black dahlia:
Again you make a jerk
out of yourself.
1. Just because one is a homosexual who lives in
honesty to god and humanity, by not bearing faults witness of whom God created
is honoring god and His commandments. Living according to Gods commandment in
respect to God and humanity. The saved homosexual has abandon no one especially
not god.
2. Sorry for your twisted lies and deception . you
will be responsible for many peoples spiritual demise lady, by your elicit
lying.
3. Again and again, I have told you over and over;
Romans is about the Shrine temple prostitution Idolatry activity, not
homosexuality. YOU HAVE LOST THE ARGUMENT, GIVE IT UP AND ADMIT YOUR WRONG. That
is if your pride doesn’t get in your way.
4. Irecently receive a prophesy that there was a lady in my life that is of the
devil trying to do harm to me, I now realize it is you on here. You seen to
have no moral conscience of truth about god nor His word. For your comments are
not about seeking Gods truth, but in promoting your own sence of judgmental ism
and condemnation.In doing so you have thrown god, His word under the buss in
lou pf a your own religion “conservatism”. You worship tht , not God! Makes you
guilty of Idolatry.
5. I am a righteously living man in Gods grace who has experienced and lives in God’s favor as a righteous man serving following in faith my God Jesus Christ.
God is not a jerk. HE HAS FORBIDDEN HOMOSEXUAL FILTH in both the old and new testaments. HOMOSEXUALS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9
To black dahlia:
1. your still up to being a liar, aren’t you? I did not say
God was a jerk, I said you were, you keep confirming to me and others on here that
you are Satan’s sidekick “she devil” by your continual twisting and mis
representing what people say, more importantly God and His word!.
2. God has not forbidden “Homosexuality,
but you, and you alone do, you must think your god, putting your own biblical
understanding above the authority of god through His Son Jesus Christ..
3. you able something “filth” what god
never did. In either the O.t, nor in the N.T..
4.1 corintians6:9 kjv states “Know
you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not
deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate,
nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
5. now abusers of themselves with
mankind, is not a reference to Homosexuality. The original Greek word used is “”Malakoi”which is NEVER
used in the Bible
to mean homosexual!
6. Conservative Calvinist Mega-Church Pastor
John MacArthur admits the context of 1 Cor 6:9 was temple prostitution.
John MacArthur admits that the context of 1 Cor 6 was temple prostitution.
Describing Corinthian Christians in the first century AD, he writes:
“They also lived in a society
that was notoriously immoral, a society that, in the temple prostitution
and other ways, actually glorified promiscuous sex. To have sexual relations
with a prostitute was so common in Corinth that the practice came to be called
“Corinthianizing.” Many believers had formerly been involved in such
immorality, and it was hard for them to break with the old ways and easy to
fall back into them… it was also hard for them to give up their sexual
immorality.” , not referring to Homosexuality at all.
The MacArthur New Testament
Commentary, 1 Corinthians, John MacArthur, Moody Press, Chicago, 1984, p. 146.
Anti-gay Calvinist Phil Johnson admits the context of 1 Cor
6:9 was
temple prostitution.
Pastor MacArthur’s Calvinist
Co-worker Phil Johnson is Executive Director of Grace To You, the
audio/video ministry of Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, CA, one of the most
influential Calvinist conservative, anti-gay mega-churches in the world.
I love it when our most ardent foes
make unintentional arguments which support our gay Christian teaching on these
important verses. Phil’s boss, John MacArthur also agrees with us that the
context of Leviticus 18:21-22 was shrine prostitution or temple prostitution.
Thanks guys!
Phil
Johnson says: “At the heart of all the problems in the church at Corinth…
a city filled with both temples and brothels—where fornication was literally
deemed a religious rite…
The
vast majority of the Jewish community in Corinth had rejected the gospel (Acts
18:6). So the church was made up of mostly Gentiles who, of course, came from a
culture that was not inclined to see sexual sin as unspiritual. Just the
opposite.
Most of the “religion” in Corinth involved temple prostitution
and debauched
sexual
behavior.” ,again not referring to “homosexuality”.but the practice of shrine templ;e prostitution Idolatry activity.
7.
I am a blessed righteous man of God, saved
by the blood of Jesus Christ who has,
and continues to experienced god’s
blessing and favor in this life. My name is written in the Lambs book of life. Nothing
you say or do can change that no matter how much you try.
AGAIN YOU ARE A LIAR…. malakoi (“receptive partner in male-male intercourse”)
o black dahila:
1. no you’re the liar, I have not lied to you about anything, but you consistantly have; Malakoi is a reference to the activity concerning the
shrine temple prostitution idolatry activity, not homosexuality. I gave you
quotes from well educated people who have tudied these scripture, there
education by far exceeds yours and any one you know!
1.In ancient times, the
malakos stem never referred exclusively to gays and lesbians. In fact, the
malakos stem rarely, if ever, referred to gays or gay behavior. In ancient
times, it was used to refer to heterosexual men who followed the Greek custom
of shaving the face daily.
Scripture cannot mean NOW
what it did not mean THEN.
Translating malakoi as homosexuals
imposes a twenty first century cultural meaning on the text which malakoi
did not mean in the first century. In 1 Cor 6:9-10 in the Greek text, Paul uses
nine masculine nouns to describe people who will not inherit the kingdom yet
the masculine nouns he uses in this case can apply to both genders.
The issue is grammatical gender vs.
biological gender. In the Greek language, masculine nouns (grammatical gender)
include males (biological gender) but are not limited to or restricted to
males. Masculine nouns sometimes include females.
No it isn’t. Your GAYCHRISTIAN site is a joke. We have real THEOLOGIANS AND GREEK/SEMITIC LANGUAGE speakers at our Seminary and Dr. Michael Brown who has a PH.D. in Semitic languages has already taken on any and all debaters on the subject. You have all been defeated soundly. Your homosexual filth is exposed and condemned in both the old and new testaments for all to see. No Christian can lie to themselves about the abomination and perversion of homosexual behavior. Jesus HIMSELF defined marriage as between a man and a woman. All sex outside of marriage is anathema to God. The wages of sin is death. The last debate between Dr. Brown and The Gay Christian (oxymoron) ended in their ignominious defeat. No surprise there……HE WROTE THE BOOK ON HOMOSEXUALITY in the bible – literally.
In fact Dr Michael Brown wrote in Can You Be Gay and Christian “… every major dictionary of New Testament Greek or Classical Greek understood Paul’s vocabulary (in particular the word arsenokoitēs) to refer to men engaging in homosexual acts…” Brown adds that “many of these lexicographers were anything but fundamentalists and were simply experts in Greek…”
To black dahlia:
Yes it is Malakoi and aresenikoi was used in conjunction concerning the Shrine temple prostitution idolatry activity not an reference to Homosexuality., the gay Christian site is an honest truthful Christian, just becaue you don’t like the site does not mean it is a joke, it onlyprooves its biblical accruacy and honesty.
site providing Biblical truth and accuracy, you’re the joke as well as your so
claim theologian, they are worthless just as your comments are.
2.
Your so called Dr. Michael Brown who has a PH.D. in Semitic languages in a
nobody , no one knows of him. All the people I have givren you are well known
people with creditable education credentials
to back them up.
3.
God has not called Homosexuiality filth, nor an abomination in either the
OT< nor the NT. You only making that claim and connections where no
connections exist. You’re the filth here not gays nor Homosexuality.
4.
Jesus Himself blessed a same-sex relationship using them as an example of faith,
Jesus being god knew full well the nature of that love relationship, He never condemned the relationship
nor Homosexuality while extensively teaching on Sin.
5.
Jesus called the religious leaders on His time “ OH generation of vipers and
hypocrites” because of their perverting the Jewish faith intyo something it was
not intended by God, they were the conservitives and the fundamentalist of His
day.
5. your explaination on Arsenokoites” is
incorrect, Define Arsenokoites – In ancient usage
this DID NOT refer to homosexuals
The Greek Language Thesaurus,
UC-Irvine, lists 73 occurrences of the arsenokoit stem from Paul’s first
century AD usage beginning in 1 Corinthians 6:9 to AD 1453.
The Thesaurus Linguae Graecae
(TLG®),
The Greek Language Thesaurus, is a research center at the University of
California, Irvine. Founded in 1972 the TLG has collected and digitized most
literary texts written in Greek, from Homer in the 8th century BC to the fall
of Byzantium in AD 1453.
On this page we will briefly examine
the first 56 uses of the arsenokoit stem in early church history. TLG is
only accessible by paid subscription.
Define arsenokoites – The first 56 historical uses of the
arsenokoit stem
Paul, I Corinthians 6:9. This is the first historical use of the word. Paul
does not define the meaning of arsenokoites.
Paul, I Timothy 1:10.
This is the second historical use of the word. Paul does not define the
meaning of arsenokoites.
Sibylline Oracle 2:70-78. The context is stealing, falsely accusing and murder.
The meaning is not defined.
Epistle of Ignatius to the Tarsians. Ignatius quotes I Corinthians 6:9 without providing a
definition.
Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians. Polycarp quotes I Corinthians 6:9 without providing a
definition.
Define arsenokoites. Acts of John 36. The
context is robber, defrauder, thief but no definition is provided.
Arsenokoithj is translated sodomite here, which indicates a shrine
prostitute.
“36
Thou that rejoicest in gold and delightest thyself with ivory and jewels, when
night falleth, canst thou behold what thou lovest? thou that art vanquished by soft
raiment, and then leavest life, will those things profit thee in the place
whither thou goest? And let the murderer know that the condign punishment is
laid up for him twofold after his departure hence. Likewise also thou poisoner,
sorcerer, robber, defrauder, sodomite [shrine prostitute], thief…”
Acts of John, 36.
Define arsenokoites. Clement of Alexandria, The
Instructor 3.11. Clement twice quotes I Corinthians 6:9, without
providing a definition.
Define arsenokoites. Aristides, Apology, 13.
Aristides, a Christian preacher, delivered his Apology around AD
125. The context was interspecies rape and Greek gods committing adultery,
murder and arsenokoitia with humans.
· ristides was not describing homosexuality. He
described interspecies sex, rape and adultery.
The preeminent story of a Greek god
lying with a male is the myth of Zeus raping Ganymede. The Gnostic version
of this myth substitutes Naas, the serpent, for Zeus, and Adam, in the garden
of Eden, for Ganymede.
The myth of Zeus and Ganymede
originated on the island of Crete, where the Cretans believed King Minos raped
Ganymede. The Greeks adopted the myth from the Cretans and attempted to justify
pederasty by exalting the rape of the boy Ganymede by the god Zeus.
“VIII. The Greeks, then, because
they are more subtle than the Barbarians, have gone further astray than the
Barbarians; inasmuch as they have introduced many fictitious gods…
and some transformed themselves into
the likeness of animals to seduce the race of mortal women, and some
polluted themselves by lying with males.
And some, they say, were wedded to
their mothers and their sisters and their daughters [incest among the gods].
And they say of their gods that they committed adultery with the daughters of
men [inter-species sex – Genesis 6]; and of these there was born a certain race
which also was mortal….
their gods are unrighteous, since they transgressed the law… in lying
with males [inter-species sex], and by their other practices as well…
they bring forward another god
Zeus… he changed himself into the likeness of an eagle through his passion
for Ganymedos (Ganymede) the shepherd…
much evil has arisen among men, who
to this day are imitators of their gods, and practice adultery and
defile themselves with their mothers and their sisters, and by lying with
males [rape, shrine prostitution and perhaps pederasty],
and some make bold to slay even
their parents. For if he [Zeus] who is said to be the chief and king of their
gods do these things how much more should his worshipers imitate him?” –
Aristides Apology, VIII & IX.
·
Define arsenokoites. Origin, Dialogue With Heraclides 10.1-12 &
On Jeremiah 20.3.33. Origin quotes I Corinthians 6:9 and comments on the
verse without providing a definition.
We define arsenokoites by
its actual usage in ancient times
Define arsenokoites. Origin,
Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew 14:10. Origin uses the word without
providing a definition.
·
Define arsenokoites. Origin, Commentary on I Corinthians 27.58. Origin
mentions arsenokoitai, without providing a definition.
·
Define arsenokoites. Origin, Exposition on Proverbs 7.74. The
context is lusts contrary to nature, which indicates nonprocreative
heterosexual sex. Historically, the phrase contrary to nature refers to
nonprocreative sexual activity between men and women, not homosexuality.
·
Define arsenokoites. Porphyrius Phil. Against the Christians, 88.13.
The context is adultery, drunkenness, theft, witchcraft but the arsenokoit stem
is not defined.
·
Define arsenokoites. Hippolytus, AD 170-236, Refutation of All
Heresies. The context is the serpent in the garden of Eden, sodomizing-raping
Eve and Adam. This usage gives no basis for concluding that arsenokoites
refers to homosexuality. Naas is the serpent, from the word Naas, referring to
the Naasseni, the people who call themselves Gnostics. “Naas, however, has
committed sin, for he went in unto Eve, deceiving her, and debauched her; and
(such an act as) this is a violation of law. He, however, likewise went in
unto Adam, and had unnatural [meaning nonprocreative or interspecies] intercourse
with him; and this is itself also a piece of turpitude, whence have arisen
adultery and sodomy.” Hippolytus, Refutation of All
Heresies, Book V, Chapter 21. This Link will open in a new page.
·
Define arsenokoites. Flavius Claudius Julianus, Against the
Galilaeans. Claudius quotes I Corinthians 6:9 without providing a
definition of the word.
· Define arsenokoites. Eusebius – Preparation
of the Gospel, 6:10. Eusebius uses the word in reference to pederasty or
rape. The text does not indicate homosexuality as we understand it today – a
faithful, noncultic partnership between two men of equal status.
·
Define arsenokoites. Eusebius, Demonstration of the Gospel, Book I,
6.23. Eusebius uses the word in a warning against adultery, followed by the
phrase, against nature (indicating nonprocreative sex). Eusebius
provides no definition of the word.
· Define arsenokoites. Epiphanius, AD
310-403. Two references, both of which quote I Corinthians 6:9 without
providing a definition.
·
Define arsenokoites. Athanasius, AD 296-373. Athanasius quotes I
Corinthians 6:9 without providing a definition.
·
Define arsenokoites. Basilius, AD 329-379. Five times Basil
quotes Paul’s use of the arsenokoit stem without providing a definition.
·
Define arsenokoites. John Chrysostom, AD 347-407. Twenty times
Chrysostom quotes I Corinthians 6:9 or I Timothy 1:10 or makes allusion to
those verses without providing a definition.
·
Define arsenokoites. Pseudo-Macarius, mid-fourth-early fifth century,
Sermon 49:5-6. As used by Pseudo-Macarius, the word refers to interspecies
sex, the attempted rape of angels in Sodom, not homosexuality.
·
Define arsenokoites. Theodoretus, AD 393-457. Theodoretus uses
the word four times, once in a vice list and in quotations from I Corinthians
6:9, without providing a definition.
Four Additional Ancient Uses
Of The Arsenokoit Stem
Dr.
Robert Gagnon,
tenured
professor at
Pittsburg Theological Seminary
and prominent anti-gay author.
In his book, The Bible And Homosexual Practice, Dr. Gagnon cites four
additional uses in antiquity, of the arsenokoit stem. I greatly respect
Dr. Gagnon's scholarship and hold him in high regard as my brother in Christ.
However, I believe his anti-gay bias is shown in how he deals with this issue.
Define arsenokoites. Joannes Malalas, AD 491-578,
in Chronographia 436.5, uses arsenokoitountes.
Define arsenokoites. Acta Conciliorum Oecumenicorum,
Chalcedon, AD 451, uses arsenokoitia.
Define arsenokoites. Aristophanes. Two marginal
notes in his writings, a passage from Nubes and a passage from Plutus,
mention arsenokoitai and arrenokoitai.
Dr. Gagnon asserts that these
particular uses refer to typically pederastic acts “but not necessarily
exclusively so.” This careful phrasing (fudge language) reflects Dr. Gagnon’s
opinion that the etymology of the arsenokoit stem makes the compound
word always mean homosexuality. His opinion is not based on definitions of arsenokoitountes,
arsenokoitia, arsenokoitai or arrenokoitai found in the ancient sources he
cites.
Instead, Dr. Gagnon’s phrase “but
not necessarily exclusively so” conveys his unsubstantiated opinion that the arsenokoit
stem, as used in antiquity, is a general reference to every kind of
homosexuality, regardless that he cannot present even one ancient reference
where the arsenokoit stem is used that way.
No ancient use of the arsenokoit stem
supports Dr. Gagnon's opinion
Obviously, if Dr. Gagnon could cite
ancient sources which used the arsenokoit stem with the meaning of homosexual
as we use the word in the twenty-first century, he would cite them. The fact
that Dr. Gagnon cannot cite any ancient sources which use the arsenokoit stem
to refer to a faithful, committed, non-cultic same sex relationship indicates
that our ancestors did not use the arsenokoit stem with that meaning.
Since the ancients never used the
arsenokoit stem to mean homosexual, every Bible translation which translates
arsenokoites to mean homosexual is wrong. Since our ancestors never used the
arsenokoit stem to mean something approximating our modern understanding of
homosexuality, preachers and churches are wrong to use I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10
to oppress and persecute gays and lesbians.
Dr. Gagnon's opinion is NOT historical fact and is at
odds with actual ancient usage
of the arsenokoit stem.
Do four alleged references to
pederasty provide sufficient linguistic basis to conclude that every other use
of the arsenokoit stem always refers to homosexuality?
My aunt had cancer surgery (a particular kind of
surgery).
My grandfather had cancer surgery.
My brother had cancer surgery.
My mother had cancer surgery.
Does it naturally follow that
whenever the word surgery is used, it always refers to cancer
surgery? Of course not.
There are many kinds of surgery
which have nothing to do with cancer. Just so, even if Dr. Gagnon’s four
citations did refer to every kind of homosexual activity, a completely
unprovable assertion which Gagnon himself does not make (he only implies it),
it does not naturally follow that every other historical use of the arsenokoit
stem indicates some form of homosexual activity.
Dr. James Barr points out the fallacy of assuming that the
meaning of compound words equals the meaning of their parts.
Dr.
James Barr,
lauded
by
the Times Online obituary
as “probably the most
significant Hebrew
and Old Testament
scholar in Britain
in the twentieth century.”
James Barr, influential heterosexual Bible scholar and linguist, was born on
March 20, 1924 and died on October 14, 2006, at the age of 82, in Claremont,
California.
Born in Glasgow, Scotland, Barr
served as a pilot in the British Royal Navy, 1942-45, during World War II. He
earned his doctorate from Oxford University where he later served as Professor.
Dr. Barr taught at Presbyterian
College, Montreal (Professor of New Testament), Edinburgh University (Professor
of Old Testament Literature and Theology), Princeton Theological Seminary,
Manchester University (Chair, Department of Semitic Languages), Oxford
University (Oriel Professor of the Interpretation of Holy Scripture and later
as the Regius Professor of Hebrew), the University of Chicago and Vanderbilt
University (Distinguished Professor of Hebrew Bible), until his retirement in
1998.
The Semantics of Biblical Language, 1961, was probably Dr. Barr’s most important book in that
it successfully demolished a long and erroneous tradition of attributing to
Biblical words and their etymologies, a linguistic significance and meaning the
Biblical words themselves did not possess in actual historical usage.
The Times Online notes
concerning Dr. Barr’s seminal work, The Semantics of Biblical Language:
“Theologians felt bereft having been
deprived of that age-old prop of their profession, i.e., the exegesis of
concepts by means of semantic images and speculations. Barr made some
enemies with this book, but once its importance had been recognized his
scholarly reputation was firmly established.”
Define arsenokoites
Dr. Barr on etymology
“The
main point is that the etymology of a word is not a statement about its meaning
but about its history…
it
is quite wrong to suppose that the etymology of a word is necessarily a guide
either to its ‘proper’ meaning in a later period or to its actual meaning in
that period.”
James Barr, The Semantics of
Biblical Language, Oxford University Press, New York, 1961, p. 109.
Dr. Gagnon places too much emphasis
on the etymology of the arsenokoit stem. His opinion is based on his
assumptions about the meaning of the arsenokoit stem as derived from its parts,
rather than on any ability to cite specific historical examples where the
arsenokoit stem is used with the meaning of homosexual as we understand that
word today.
The sources we have cited on this
page make it clear that in the vast majority of cases, the arsenokoit
stem, when used in antiquity is not defined. Where it is defined, it never
refers to a faithful, committed, same sex relationship between males of equal
status.
Australian Scholar Dr. Ann Nyland
On The Meaning Of arsenokoites
Dr.
Ann Nyland
Dr. Ann Nyland, Faculty in ancient Greek language and Ancient History in the
Department of Classics and Ancient History, the University of New England in
Australia, Translator of The Source New Testament and The Gay and
Lesbian Study Bible, says about arsenokoites:
"The
word arsenokoites in 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 has been assumed to mean
“homosexual.”
However
the word does not mean “homosexual,” and its range of meaning includes one who
anally penetrates another (female or male), a rapist, a murderer or an
extortionist.
When used in the meaning “anal
penetrator,” it does not apply exclusively to males as the receptors, as it was
also used for women receptors. The word does not appear in any Greek literary
source until the poets of the Imperial period. This late occurrence is most
significant as the Greeks wrote at length on male-male sexual relationships.
The cognate verb [arsenokoitein]
appears in the Sibylline Oracles ii.73 me arsenokoitein, me sukophantein, mete
phoneuein, where it is in company with committing extortion and committing
murder.
Pseudo-Macarius Aegyptius, Homiliae
spirituales IV 4.22, stated that the people of Sodom sinned greatly and did not
repent, and “created the ultimate offense in their evil purpose against the
angels, wishing to work arsenokoitia upon them.”
Aristides said that the Greek gods
commit murders and poisonings, adulteries, thefts and arsenokoites in the
context of rape.
The 6th c. astrologer Rhetorius
Aegyptius used the term as women with the receptors: “arsenokoites (of women)
and rapists of women.”
Dr. Ann Nyland on arsenokoites.
This Link will open in a new page.
A Brief Biography of
Ann Nyland
Ann Nyland, an Australian scholar
whose research field is Greek Biblical lexicography based on the papyri and
inscriptions, holds a Ph.D. in New Testament lexicography, graduate degree
(double major) in Classical Greek language, Honors Degree in the Ionic dialect
of Greek.
She served as faculty in ancient
Greek language and Ancient History in the Department of Classics and Ancient
History at the University of New England in Australia. Nyland is published
(academic journals) in the field of Greek and Hittite lexicography.
Nyland's father, a Classicist,
taught her Latin before English, which created a love of ancient languages.
When Nyland was six years old, she accepted the Lord as her Savior. As a
teenager, Nyland received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and joined a
Spirit-filled church.
Her mother eventually became a
pastor of a small church in an area marked by poverty. Following in her
mother's footsteps, Nyland also served as a pastor.
Impartial students of scripture can
see that the arsenokoit stem has a range of meaning which rarely, if
ever carries the meaning of homosexual.
The way our ancestors actually used
these words must guide us
as we define arsenokoites
We have demonstrated on this page,
that no use of the arsenokoit stem in antiquity, describes committed,
noncultic gay marriages or homosexual partnerships, as we understand them
today.
Therefore, when we define arsenokoites,
honesty requires that our definition must fit the way our ancient ancestors
actually used the word.
THERE NOW YOU GOT A WELL ROUNDED UNDERSTANDING O THE WORD “Arsenokoites”.
Finally and lastly, you’re the joke as well as those you capitulate
to in your all’s unchristian teaching which is heretical and satanically
influenced. I suggest you get away from your so called seminary and go to a
more legitimate one, there are several legitimate seminaries out there to
choose from.
Your interpretation has been and corrected rebutted by Dr. Brown who is an authority in Semitic languages . You are free to believe your own lies but it’s not going to help you when you face God.
Homosexuality has been forbidden in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. And there’s nothing you can do about it except to defy God and betrayed the Holy Spirit. Judas did the same thing even though he knew Jesus was God.
To black dahlia:
1.Mr. dr. Brown means nothing to me, his critique is
worthless, I doubt he is an authority of anything, He is a unknown person.
2.I have not lied about anything ,but you are grabbing on to make
believe people you have manufactured. You give information that is not
verifiable by a seminary you don’t disclose, its name or its background, all the people I have quoted
I have given you their names, their background and credentials, you have given
nothing on your people or seminary. You keep it secretly undisclosed. Why?
I think you make a claim of being in seminary thinking I and others would not
question you about it.
3. Homosexuality has not been forbidden in either the OT nor
the Nt0(especially when God through His Son used a same-sex relationship as an example
of faith) which speaks volume, nothing you can do about it other than provide
your lies as you have done. I have not betrayed God nor His holy spirit,
interestingly you make that claim accusing another of doing exactly what you’re
doing, or have done!
4. Yes Judas betrayed God, ok you just named yourself Judas,
which is what a Satan influenced person does. Im so sorry for you, you should
gret on your knees befor god to ask for forgiveness!
You have shown the world that God’s word means nothing to you. You are going to practice homosexual abomination and perversion as long as you live and as long as you are capable of doing so. God has made it very plain in the Old and New Testaments that homosexual abomination and perversion is forbidden to decent human beings. You have rejected God; you have rejected his word; you have rejected the prophets;you have rejected the interpreters of Greek and Hebrew. There is no more sacrifice left to be given on behalf of people such as yourself who willfully sin against God and your own body.
To black dahlia:
1.
I have shown the world that Gods word and meaning
means the world to me to stand up regardless of the criticisms, and filth of deceptions
from
perverted peoples mind set and attitudes like yours and those like you,
who choose to mis-rep[resent God and His word.
2.
God has not condemned Homosexuality in either
the ot nor the nt, especially when God through His Son Jesus Christ blessed an
same-sex relationship using them as an example of faith to follow.
3.
I have rejected nothing of God, you have maligned
God and His word for your own purposes not gods purpose. You have thrown god
and his word under the bus for your own sake and benefit to purpotrait your
deception.
4.
Your last statement “There is no more sacrifice left to be given on
behalf of people such as yourself who willfully sin against God. Applies to you
and your activity to use god inm such a deceptive way as you do!
No you haven’t shown anything. I HAVE SHOWN YOU THE MEANING FROM RENOWNED HEBREW AND GREEK SCHOLARS. They have shown you the correct interpretations that we have all read in the bibles that BIBLE TRANSLATORS use each and everyday. You have chosen to HARDEN YOUR HEART AGAINST GOD’S WORD and will pay for it with by NOT INHERITING THE KINGDOM OF GOD – just as HE stated.
1 Corinthians 6:9 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will …
1. Can you give me a single, unambiguous biblical example of a God-blessed homosexual relationship?
2. Do you agree that every reference to homosexual practice in the Bible is decidedly negative?
I appeal to everyone reading this article to read with heart and mind, to search the Word carefully and prayerfully, to listen to followers of Jesus who have renounced homosexual practice, and to be moved by what our God says more than what our (often fickle and misleading) emotions might say. It is the truth alone that will set us free and, to repeat, Jesus is enough for all of us.
DR. MICHAEL BROWN – “What does the Bible say about homosexual practice?” The reason for that is self-evident, namely, it is impossible to make a case for homosexual relationships using the Word of God alone.
To black dahlia:
I’ve shown you the scriptural
truth! You haven’t shown me nothing, but fiction.
2. you claim to be in seminary which I believe is a lie,
your just making that claim to convince people you’re a creditable person, not.
You don’t reveal the name of the seminary your in, nor any of its background, If your claim is true you would disclose the seminaries
name and background!
3. this tells me and others that you’re a hoax who is just trying
to cause trouble by being deceptive to suite your own judgmental mind set and
attitude.
4.Your guilty
of this, not me girl” You have chosen to
HARDEN YOUR HEART AGAINST GOD’S WORD and will pay for it with by NOT INHERITING
THE KINGDOM OF GOD – just as HE stated.
1.
Corinthians is about the shrine temple
prostitution Idolatry activity, not Homosexuality, yo lie about everything, wrapping
your own lies in the use of Scripture, by giving faults witness to the true
meaning of Gods word.
2.
I have repeatedly given you an example of God
through His Son “Jesus Christ” blessing a same-sex relationship, the Centurion
and his slave in Matthew and in Luke. The word used 500 yrs before the writing of
Matthew was pedika’,this term was ( a diminutive of Pais) Pedika a direct reference to the jr, partner in a same-sex relationship. The
people of that time would have had the understanding by the use of pais and
padika to mean in reference to a same-sex relationship.
3.
5. No I do not agree that “every reference to
homosexual practice in the Bible is decidedly negative? The centurion and his
slave was not negative but positive as an example for all.
4.
8. I appeal to all, this woman “black dahlia” is nothing but a
wolf in sheep’s clothing ( one who claims to be a Christian follower of Jesus
Christ, yet who uses god His word in deceptive manors)., trying to cause confusion,
and deception on the issue of Homosexuality, she quotes Scripture but then
maligns it to turn into something God never said, there by hiding her
deception. She claim,s to be in seminary but never discloses the seminaries name
nor background, she names supposedly theologians , but offers no credible proof
of being in seminary, Her continual refusal to disclose the seminary and its
background leads me to think and believe it’s all a hoax created by her. She
has proven to me she is not to be believed nor trusted to offer any creditable
information on here. I recommend that all beware of her and stay clear of her
comments. God did not condemn Homosexuality in either the OT notr the Nt but
did condemn sexual activity in worship, and in Idolatry worship.
Lastly her statement “DR. MICHAEL BROWN –
“What does the Bible say about homosexual practice?” The reason for
that is self-evident, namely, it is impossible to make a case for homosexual
relationships using the Word of God alone”
.
5.
All you have to do is understand the centurion
slave story, it is very clear when you learn the history and usage of Hebrew and
Greek words used .
No you haven’t . I quote you scripture – you quote me HOMOSEXUAL OPINION. Here at my seminary we have a variety of Christian denominations. No one who translates any bible or SPEAKS GREEK/HEBREW has contradicted the explicit word of God on HOMOSEXUAL ABOMINATION AND PERVERSION.
PURE SCRIPTURE….”You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” Chapter 18 verse 22. “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”
Homosexuality in the New Testament. In the New Testament (NT) there are at least three passages that refer to homosexual activity: Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy4 1:9–10
PURE SCRIPTURE…..1 Corinthians 6:9-11Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality, 10 who steal, who are greedy, who get drunk, who assail people with contemptuous language, who rob — none of them will share in the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you used to do these things. But you have cleansed yourselves, you have been set apart for God, you have come to be counted righteous through the power of the Lord Yeshua the Messiah and the Spirit of our God.
Romans 1 24 This is why God has given them up to the vileness of their hearts’ lusts, to the shameful misuse of each other’s bodies. 25 They have exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, by worshipping and serving created things, rather than the Creator — praised be he for ever. Amen. 26 This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
God’a word is hardly fiction. The story of the centurion is about a master and slave nothing more. Jesus commended the centurion for his faith. Nothing more. You people are so desperate to grasp onto anything that you will take even such an innocuous story as the healing of a slave to mean homosexual acceptance. God cannot accept sin. That is why he sent his son Jesus Christ to die for us. If you continue in your perverse homosexual filth there will be no more sacrifice left to be made for you. Resist Satan and he will flee from you.
I have given YOU scriptures. You have given me your commentary and the commentary of others about the scriptures. The scriptures themselves say nothing about homosexual relationships except to condemn them. CHAPTER AND VERSE ONLY
If the homosexual community chooses to practice homosexuality in privacy, that is there free choice. But let such persons know for certain that the Christian Bible condemns all such practices and God will judge them unfit for the kingdom of heaven if the continue to practice and openly promote homosexual sex.
God has shown the world that he despises homosexuality. When God calls homosexuality an abomination
(Leviticus 18:22) (Leviticus 20:13)
Yep. We’ve all heard that Leviticus is where the Bible straight-up says that homosexual behavior is an abomination. And yes, it does. It also says that homosexuals should receive the death penalty.
Leviticus 18:22
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them
1 Timothy 1:10 ESV
The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine.
Mark 10:6-9 But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.
Jude 1:7 ESV
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
1 Corinthians 7:2
But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
ROMANS1
26 This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
God in his unchanging word has condemned homosexuality in both the Old and New Testaments. You are now calling God a liar. In Leviticus he hasbtold you that it is an abomination. And Romans he has told you that it is a perversion. You have rejected God and His word. There’s no other sacrifice left to be made for your kind. Sorry for you. You will go the same way that Sodom and Gomorrah went for going after strange flesh.
1st Corinthians 6:9 Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. (The unchanging moral law of God).
You have shown the world that you dwell in abomination and perversion as stated by THE WORD OF GOD.
You show the world your ignorance and desperation. The word of God is very plain and he has spoken. You cannot change the word of God; it is forever settled in heaven. Homosexuality is nothing but abomination and perversion to God and he will not accept your sin.
When God calls homosexuality an abomination
(Leviticus 18:2222 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
(Leviticus 20:13)13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Matthew 19:1-8 — Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited.
ROMANS 1
24 This is why God has given them up to the vileness of their hearts’ lusts, to the shameful misuse of each other’s bodies. 25 They have exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, by worshipping and serving created things, rather than the Creator — praised be he for ever. Amen. 26 This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
1 Corinthians 6:9
9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
Of course you a nobody doubt the authority of DR. MICHAEL BROWN – who is quite renowned in the United States. You are in denial. His 27 books, radio and television programs and debating skills second to none – frighten you who are in denial of the truth. His SEMITIC LANGUAGE skills are quite extensive as are his very respected credentials. YOU HAVE HARDENED YOUR HEART AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD AND HIS PROPHETS. Sorry for you and those that you are dragging along with you to perdition. Their blood is upon your head.
Genesis 1:27—Many religious homosexuals argue that God “created” them as homosexuals, but this passage refutes without question that God did not “create” as an original purpose same gender sexual relationships. Furthermore, to date, there is no credible proof that homosexuality is genetic, an argument raised in an attempt to negate the truth of God’s creative intent.
Leviticus 18:22King James Version (KJV)
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13King James Version (KJV)
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Get to know DR. BROWN – he is quite renowned and at the scholastic forefront in his field…..
Michael L. Brown (born 1955) is an American Messianic Jew, radio host, conservative and author. His nationally syndicated radio show, The Line of Fire, airs throughout the United States.[1] He is also president and professor of practical theology at Fellowship for International Revival and Evangelism School of Ministry. He has also served as adjunct professor of Old Testament at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois and adjunct professor of Jewish apologetics at Fuller Theological Seminary School of World Mission. He has contributed to the Oxford Dictionary of Jewish Religion, and the Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament.
to black dahila:
1. the scholastic and academia accomplishment of Kenneth Dover by far exceeds those of your dr. brown on every level.
LOL – no it doesn’t and Dr. Brown is only ONE of thousands who understand and write the books that you read. Trying to undermine God’s word never works. HOMOSEXUALITY IMMORALITY IS AN ABOMINATION AND PERVERSION and there is nothing you can do to change the word of God.
To black dahila:
1.
LOL yes it does,, dr. brown is an unknown1 a phantom
theologian in your world. You give absolutely no background on your claim of
brown being a theologian, tis make you a scam artist creating confusion and
un-scriptural claims, trying to promote
yourself as being a creditable source, which you are not nor brown.
2.
Brown may have written books, but Sir Kenneth Dover
has written many more He has the academia credentials to prove and back up his academia accomplishment, plus dr. Gagnon who has a
doctorate degree( I gave you their bios and educational backgrounds in
an earlier post. You call brown a dr. but give no citation of the doctorate
degree of any education background of brown.He, she is a fake and a phantom theologian
in your own world you continually refuse to disclose the seminary you claim to
attend.
3.
God through His Son never claimed Homosexuality
to be immoral abomination, nor a perversion,. His is just your claim, and your
claim alone, which has no Biblical support, (God Blessed an ancient same-sex
relationship using their faith as an example of faith for all to follow).
4.
You are correct no one can change th word of
God, but you are sure trying to satisfy your own Evil motives to oppress and
place people in bondage that Scripture doesn’t place them in.
5.
I bet all the ones you mention are conservatives,
which would make sense from the judgmental condescending attitude you keep
presenting.
Pais definition in the Greek lesicon includes “slave” slave in troman times wre used for low menial tasks considered benezath the dignaty of a rroman up through to include sexual pleasure and gratification, which this means the use of Pais and “Peddika” would have had the gereneral undersandin in Bibnle times as a same-sex relationship.
Dr. Brown’s credentials are quite well-known in Christendom. Fortunately God himself knows Michael Brown to and his good works. The only problem homosexuals have with Dr. Brown is that he exposes them for all the world to see. Sorry for you wallowing in your nasty filth.
To black dahlia:
1.
Your
lying as usual, Dr. Brown is not well known, you still refuse to offer a bio on
brown, brown’s educational background, the seminary you claim to go to, you are
not in a seminary, you’re just saying you are to mis lead people into thinking
you have credit ability, which you don’t.
2.
All dr,
brown is known for is being a “radio personality” no theology degree or doctorate
degree, not for anything else, plus browns is a conservative which means he twist things to
his liking as you do.
3.
You now refer to Brown as He, where before you
referred to brown as “she”, that even
proves you’re a fake as well as brown.
4.
God does know brown and you both for your lies
and lying filth you have been doing to God and his word.
5.
I am
wallowing in nothing but Gods word and His truth, sorry you call that nasty
filth!
6.
Youre the one exhibiting nasty filth in your lies, deceit and
Evil deception, , your Satan’s Evil side
kick, his “she devil”.
27 books a Radio Show and TV show tell me that I’m not lying. He doesn’t say anything that all of the rest of the Christian theologians and biblical Scholars don’t say. Trying to attack him personally won’t work he’s two renowned for that and you can’t touch him. You might want to pick up his book on homosexuals.
He is also a specialist in his field of Semitic languages.
To black dahlia:
1.
So he can write books( he still is nothing but a
radio personality promoting his own particular view), as did those who I gave
you and their bios, yet you still do not disclose this mans bio, education nor
degrees, you still don’t reveal the
seminary you claim to attend.
2.
2.I have not attacked him only your claim of him
as you claim him to be, because you don’t dixclose his bio, degrees, nor his
education, yet you want everyone to accept your comments as being creditable, I
don’t think so, your being deceptive in not doing so.
3.
I don’t
need to pick up his book on Homosexuals, because he is a conservative who
probable does what conservatives do; they
do not reveal all the facts but
only edit the facts to present only the conservative view as conservative do,
by only presenting their own twisted views of dishonesty.
4.
I don’t exactly know what our saying here “He
doesn’t say anything that all of the rest of the Christian theologians and
biblical Scholars don’t say”. Other than you admitting he twist facts by omitting
information if it does not reflect what he wants to put out publically I don’t trust him nor you, nor should any one
eles, you reject all the creditable and verifiable information I have given
you, so why should I or anyone else believe you?
Lastly; your claim “He is also a specialist in his field of Semitic languages” I doubt is true, you give no evidence he has any degrees, I gave you Kenneth drovers bio and the proof of he being a authority on Greek culture language. I believe doves education and expertise over and above sany of your claims, being you offer no proof of any of your claims.
He is tops in his field of SEMITIC LANGUAGES – including interpretation of the bible. Trying to berate this top person in their field shows how desperate you are to legitimize your homosexual abomination and perversion. HE ADHERES TO THE WORD….something you cannot do.
DR. MICHAEL BROWN PROMOTING GOD’S VIEW OF HOMOSEXUAL SIN….The Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality is as clear and plain as the Bible’s condemnation of murder, adultery, premarital sex, kidnapping, lying and idolatry. Further, for me to openly condemn homosexuality theologically makes me no more a “gay basher” than I am an “adultery basher”, “premarital sex basher”, “kidnapper basher” or a “murderer basher”. If you disagree, your argument is with God’s Bible.
GOD “S UNADULTERATED WORD…
“Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin. English Standard Version You shall not lie with a male as …Leviticus 18:23
Leviticus 18:22 New Living Translation (NLT)
22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Romans 1 24 This is why God has given them up to the vileness of their hearts’ lusts, to the shameful misuse of each other’s bodies. 25 They have exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, by worshipping and serving created things, rather than the Creator – praised be he for ever. Amen. 26 This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion
To black dahlia:
Hes tops at oting, you don’t give any detail on his degree in that area!
1. say’s YOU, You
STILL DO NOT OFFER THE NAME OF YOUR Seminary, nor any bio or educational history
on your Mr. brown your refusal to disclose it tells me and the rest on here,
you Brown and your so called seminary is
a hoax, a figment of your imagination.
2.I bersate no one, you do so by refusing to qualify your
claim with proof of their credential’s. I do nothing to legitimize homosexuality,
you legitimize it be not disclosing the proof of your claim.
3. God has not claim homosexuality to be an “abomination,
nor perversion.
4. Obviously brown does not reflect god’s word, being God
did not condemn nor teach against homosexuality, but God through His son blessed
an ancient same-sex relationship the Centurion and his slave in Matthew and in
Luke. This fact makes your brown a liar as you obviously are and have made
yourself out to be.
5. Yes your hateful and biases attitude does make you out to
be a gay basher and murder of gays , by your hatred od them, my argument is not with God, being He never condemned
homosexuality but blessed the same-sex relationship of the centurion and his
slave, my argument is with you.
6.Romans is about the “shrine temple prostitution Idolatry
activity” not homosexuality.
7. God is King and will judge fairly everyone, Praise to god
Amen! His judgment will not be tainted by your perverse mentality of judgment.You
have no creditability on here.
You are lying as usual – I gave you his credentials that you could have easily looked up yourself. He holds a Ph.D. in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures from New York University and has served as a visiting or adjunct professor at Southern Evangelical Seminary, Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary (Charlotte), Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Fuller Theological Seminary, Denver Theological Seminary, the King’s Seminary, and Regent University School of Divinity, and he has contributed numerous articles to scholarly publications, including the Oxford Dictionary of Jewish Religion and the Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament.Dr. Brown is the author of 27 books, including, Our Hands Are Stained with Blood: The Tragic Story of the “Church” and the Jewish People, which has been translated into more than twelve languages, the highly-acclaimed five-volume series, Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, a commentary on Jeremiah (part of the revised edition of the Expositor’s Bible Commentary), and several books on revival and Jesus revolution. His newest books are The Fire that Never Sleeps: Keys for Sustaining Personal Revival (2015, with John Kilpatrick and Larry Sparks), Outlasting the Gay Revolution: Where Homosexual Activism is Really Going and How to Turn the Tide (2015), and Breaking the Stronghold of Food: How We Conquered Food Addictions and Discovered a New Way of Living (2017, with Nancy Brown).
Dr. Brown is a national and international speaker on themes of spiritual renewal and cultural reformation, and he has debated Jewish rabbis, agnostic professors, and gay activists on radio, TV, and college campuses. He is widely considered to be the world’s foremost Messianic Jewish apologist.
I have no intentions of giving you the name or place of my University/Seminary. You have no need to know anything about me. I am not interested in knowing your personal biography. Why would I? My only interest is the WORD OF GOD.
It is easy to see that you have sold your sould to satan. My intereest is in the many readers who truly are seeking the PURE WORD OF GOD.
Yes I have given you his bio and you are free to look it up yourself. Your denial is because YOU ARE AFRAID. You attack God’s word and his prophets. THE SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom. Sorry for you. You can only quote a person OUTSIDE of the bible BECAUSE you know that the bible condemns homosexuality. Of course those who approve of homosexual perversion are not of God. They are your kind – people who engage in HOMOSEXUAL FILTH AND PEOPLE WHO APPROVE OF HOMOSEXUAL FILTH.
Of course those who are worshipers of darkness will not read his books or heed the word of God on homosexual perversion. Dr. Brown’s questions are just too penetrating for you….
“Are all sexual orientations gifts from God? Zoophilia, or coprophilia, the sexual stimulation by faeces, or bestiality, I mean things that everyone would be repulsed by, or pedophilia. Are those gifts from God? … How do you distinguish which sexual orientation is a gift from God and which is not?”
HOMOSEXUALITY IS CONDEMN IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT – NO GETTING AROUND IT…just lying to yourself.
Leviticus 20:13
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”
Pretty hard to get around that one.
You won’t believe God’s prophets – maybe you will believe God HIMSELF….
Leviticus 18:22 ESV
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Leviticus 20:13 ESV
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Romans 1:26-28 ESV
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
1 Timothy 1:10
The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
Mark 10:6-9 ESV
But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Jude 1:7 ESV / 766 helpful votes
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
1 Corinthians 7:2 ESV / 748 helpful votes
But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
1 Timothy 1:10-11 ESV / 569 helpful votes
The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Romans 1:27 ESV
And the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Romans 1:32 ESV JUST PUNISHMENT FOR SEXUAL PERVERSION
Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
Genesis 19:1-38 HOMOSEXUAL PERVERSION ON DISPLAY
The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth and said, “My lords, please turn aside to your servant’s house and spend the night and wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the town square.” But he pressed them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house. And he made them a feast and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.
tp black dsahila:
the bible does tell us gays were created John 1:3 tells us that
“hrough him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. gay people just didn’t happen, they were creatyed just as anyone else.
“
HOMSOSEXUAL desires are not created by God. GOD created mankind but gave mankind free will. Many have used their free will to sin as homosexuals are doing. The absence of righteousness is sin. The absence of God is darkness. Homsexuals dwell in darkness. God does not “create” murders, liars, thieves and sodomists. That is the free will choice of the sinner.
To
Black dahlia:
You
ignore Scripture as God through His Son taught it; John 1 3 says; New
International Version
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been
made.
New Living
Translation
God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.
English
Standard Version
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that
was made.
Berean
Study Bible
Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has
been made.
1. Now
all is all it is all inclusive, it does not leave out anything. That is Scripture;
sorry you refuse to believe Scripture, this is as plain as your brown
nose on your face!
2. Yes God did created man with “free
will” we agree on this point.
3.
God still blessed an ancient same-sex relationship in the centurion slave
example, and never condemned them nor connected them to sin or abomination,
etc.
4. Yes people do exercise their free will
wrongly at times, which we all are guilty of doing in one way or another including you.
5. Manny Christian homosexuals who are Christ followers are just as righteous
as anyone else , these Homosexuals dwell in the light and Grace of our Lord
Jesus Christ, saved and Sanctified by the Blood of Jesus Christ.
5. God does not create sinners just for the
expressed purpose to condemn them. Again I stated this before in a previous
post, this is about Mind sets and attitude, One being Godly, the other being
more Evil or un-Godly.
Christ followers are followers of godliness which many homosexuals
are part of by their choice of free will.
.
God did not create sin mankind wallows in sin not God. God created us male and female In His Image. He gave us free will and people such as yourself choose to engage in homosexual abomination. God has condemned homosexual perversion in both the Old and New Testaments and has stated very plainly that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom. God is not a man that he can lie. You need to resist Satan and he will flee from you.
To black dahlia:
1. I did not say god created si, nI only gave you
His own quote in John 1:3 I believe He means what He says and says what He
means; all is all inclusive, even if it
does not line up with our human understanding of Creation. His ways are not our
ways, this stamen is Scripture.
2. Sin is sin Satan was obviously created but
choose to rebel against god and was cast out of heaven, along with a legion of fallen
angels.
3. I know
your implying homosexuality is sin, but it is not, if it were god through His
son would have said so, but did not, instead blessed a same-sex relationship “the
centurion and his slave” using them as an example of faith for all of us, while
Jesus taught extensively on sin; yet did not connect homosexuality to sin at
all.
4. NO I do not choose to engage in homosexuality,
I choose to live, bear witness in truth
of my God as the person god created and live in honesty before man and
god to witness in truth of god to whom He created.” A gay man” to do anything
different would be a lie and bearing faults witness. I live in honesty not
deception or lies.
5. God did
not condemn homosexuality in either th OT not the NT You lie about homosexuals
will not inherit the kingdom of god, God hasd never said that. You twist
scripture to your own deceptions and your own lies to get to that faults claim
of yours. You’re not god So stop usurping His own authority to judge.
6. True god is not a man who can lie, but you are
the one doing it, by using His word in a
faults manner.
7. Lastly “You need to resist Satan and he will
flee from you”
8. you should understand, there is a difference between mind sets here, one being Godly and one being un-Godly. stop being un-Godly.
YOUR WILFULL PARTICIPATION IN HOMSOSEXUAL PERVERSION IN SIN AND SEPARATION FROM GOD. God created mankind – YOU CHOSE A SINFUL LIFE. Deal with it!
God created men and angels with a free will, and, if a being has a free will, there is at least the potential that he will choose badly. The potential for sin was a risk God took. He created human beings in His image, and, since He is free, humans were created free, too (Genesis 1:27). Free will involves the ability to choose, and, after God communicated the moral standard, He gave the man a true choice (Genesis 2:16). Adam chose disobedience. God did not tempt, coerce, or lure Adam into disobedience. James 1:13 says, “When tempted, no one should say, ‘God is tempting me.’ For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone.” God allowed Adam the dignity of free choice and honored that choice with appropriate consequences (Romans 5:12).
God provided the opportunity to sin, but He did not create or instigate sin
To Black dahlia:
1.I already have dealt with it by putting it before God my
Lord, He never condemned it you’re the one trying to condemn gays and
homosexuals , not god.
2. I am not separated from God because of homosexuality, you
re separated from God because of your lying about Him and His word for your own
personal purposes, DEAL WITH IT!
3. Yes the potential of choosing badly is always a
possibility, but the majority of homosexuals are not homosexual by choice, they
are born or created that way.
4. Yes Adam exercised his free will which was influenced by a women Eve!perhaps a distant relative of yours.
5. I never said god instigated sin, or tempted, but all creation is creation which god plainly stated
in John 1:3 DEAL WITH IT!
Satan and his fallen angels are the others of sin by a mindset
opposing a godly mind set of God.
You haven’t dealt with anything. YOU ARE STILL SEEPED IN HOMOSEXUAL PERVERSION AND APPROVING OF OTHERS WHO SPIT IN THE FACE OF GOD.
God has condemned homosexual perversion and abomination in both the new and old testaments.
◄ Leviticus 20:13 ►
New International Version
“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
You have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and for perversion.
Romans 1 26-27 GOD’S PURE WORD
This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
Reply to BLACK DALIA
To black dahlia:
1.
You mis the point, when I say I have dealt with
it, I am saying I am in right standing with my God and Lord that is all that is
important to me not anyone’s else opinion including yours. In other word I’ve been reconciled to God not you!
2.
I and no other gay nor any Christian homosexual person is WHO SPIT IN THE FACE
OF GOD. As you put it, it id you spitting inn the face of God by your refusal TO
ACCEPT THE FACT He has not condemned homosexuality.
3.
All you’re other comments using God and mixing
OT and NT passages out of context to condemn people you haste, with biase prejudice
attitudes is rubbish, Now I know by your other camments you will twist my words
to say I called Gods word rubbish, I am telling right now, I am not calling god’s
word rubbish, only your willingness to use God His word to purport a lie created by you.
4. The
New international vers is a version created by conservative’s incorporating conservative
twist, which does not reflect gods actual message. You people do not seek Biblical truth of god
but only that which supports your own desires. By doing what you do, You have exchanged the truth of God for a
lie and for perversion.
5. I keep
telling you what Romans is about, but you just keep perverting gods holly
message by applying it in the manner in which you do!
6. You are not someone to be trusted with god’s
word or His holly message
Your homosexual nastiness is in itself an offense against God. Just like Sodom and Gomorrah homosexuals here in this country defy God and are proud of their filth.
To black dahila:
1.
No it is not an offense against god, nor am I
the only one it is an offens to is you!, you’re the nasty one on here not me
nor god.
2.
Sodom and Gomorrah was not about homosexuality as Ezekiel 16:49
states. Its interesting hoew you pluck
out scripture from its context just to support your judgmental biases hateful prejudice
attitude yet refuse to acknowledge Gods word in its contextual context.
3.
Homosexual in this nation know what kivd of
people you are a deprived and pervers group who stiop st noting to pervert zgod
His word, and Grace for your own ends. That is the filth here, not homosexuals.
You need Jesus Christ in our life, then let Him teach you Scriptural truth not man’s
Scriptural truth. Christian Homosexuals
are proud of the persons God created them to be, you call filth what god never
called filth.
Your attitudes are responsible for gay bashing’s, murder and hate motivated crimes against gays, and Homosexuality. your a MURDER!
HOMOSEXUALITY is an abomination in the nostrils of a pure God. Homosexualy perversion and abomination is forbidden in both the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS.
GOD’S WORD…
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (NKJ, Leviticus 18:22)
If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. (NKJ, Leviticus 20:13)
1 Corinthians 6:9New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites,
Romans 1 26-27
26 This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
To black dahila:
1.
Just because you twit
Scripture to your own